Speaker 1: This is, is off track.
Oh, I'm sorry, Tim, did you have a busy week?
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually , Speaker 1: Why don't you explain
to the listeners, Tim, why your week was so
Speaker 2: Hard.
Oh. 'cause I had to work for a day.
I pulled in all day, or I didn't even take a nap yesterday.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude. That's, uh, one
of the more relatable things you've said on this show. Do
Speaker 3: You think, do you think it was hard
because your brain's compressed from that stupid
Speaker 1: Hat?
Yeah. Why are you still wearing that thing? Like, I thought,
Speaker 3: Why are you still wearing that?
I thought that was just a guy
Speaker 2: Because I was having another, I was
having another bad hair day.
Speaker 3: You, Speaker 1: I didn't think you had bad hair days.
That always looks the same, Tim. That looks, you
Speaker 3: Haven't taken it for like a week.
Speaker 2: I, this morning.
Speaker 1: Take your hat off right now.
That's how you look. Going to like a
wedding Speaker 2: .
There's no difference. Well, you know, to say you,
Speaker 1: I'm getting a bad Speaker 2: Hair day.
I'm getting a lot of comments about my hair lately
and I'm, I'm getting sensitive about it.
Well, I'm, who's busy today?
Speaker 1: Who's making comments about your hair? People online?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Or
Speaker 1: Your girl.
Oh, girlfriend. Do we listen to to them now?
Is that what we're doing? And
Speaker 2: Her as well.
And her. Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 1: Okay. Here I was thinking you were falling into the trap
of listening to Haters online, but it's really just
Speaker 2: Girlfriend.
She did find that pretty funny. That's what I thought.
No, she likes the longer hair.
She just prefers that I, you know,
do more and just wake up with it.
Yeah. Um,
Speaker 3: It's very, it's very LA
director producer of you though, to wear it. You look like
Speaker 1: You should be.
Speaker 2: You're always wearing a hat.
James, you're wearing a hat right now. Did Vic? That
Speaker 1: Is Speaker 2: My head. This is a big
Speaker 3: Hat.
Doesn't No, that's a very LA yes. Producer, director of you.
Speaker 1: It's, it's a big hat, but you have an enormous head.
And like, this is like this, this hat has some structure.
That's one of those completely unstructured hats
and that's very popular in
Speaker 2: The film world.
A hat that I need to shop for. The options are limited. I
Speaker 1: I Nobody's criticizing your hat selection.
We're just saying I'm, it feels like
Speaker 2: You're criticizing my hat.
Alex is very, he's being very open about criticizing my hat
Speaker 1: Selection.
No, no, no, no. It's, it's just comments observing that
that is also a style of hat that is common on criticism.
Speaker 2: Lemme go ahead and ask. Hey Alex,
were you just observing Alex?
Speaker 1: Nope. Alex, Speaker 2: I sure wasn't .
Speaker 3: No, no. Like I'm observing to criticize.
So you are both right. .
Speaker 1: I, I support his statement in its observational capacity.
I do not support it in its critical capacity. You do? Okay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Speaker 1: You do. No, I mean, it
looks terrible. That's not what I'm
saying. Speaker 2: .
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm Speaker 2: Gonna need you both to examine your hair lines
before you criticize anything going on up here.
All Alex to me Looking pretty good. Yeah.
you mean you mean
that I've actually found out I have a pretty
weird hairline too.
It's just, it's hidden it really
Speaker 1: Long hair, it very angular.
You gotta bring angular hairline.
Speaker 2: It's weird. Like it has the ridges. I don't like it.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's, Speaker 2: Sorry, ridges. That's why Zoe
de Chanel with the bangs.
That's not all I have in common with Zoe De Chanel most
of my life is modeled after her. Um,
Speaker 1: Let's stop, let's stop there.
I feel like that's not great for any
of us to learn about who's girl. It's
Tim Speaker 2: .
Speaker 1: To be fair, that show is ridiculously funny and that
Speaker 2: Entire cast love that show.
Speaker 1: Excellent. It's a great show.
Um, yeah, so, so Tim had to work really hard this week
and I'm glad that you did.
'cause it worked out well for everybody.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a, that was a new one for us actually.
Breaking news. I mean, we didn't really
Speaker 1: Break it considering it was announced like several hours
before our, our stuff came out.
Speaker 2: Well, part of it was first interview,
Speaker 1: Right? Like the Colton
Speaker 2: Stuff interview broke an hour before our episode released.
The Will stuff broke Right. As our episode released.
Speaker 1: Look, it was the first, it was the first interview I saw
with, uh, either guy.
So I feel like we get some credit there. Yeah.
And after, after the second only interview
with Mark Miles post the Fox announcement of buying IndyCar,
that's like two kind of scoopy things that we've done.
We're getting pretty scoopy on off track. But
Speaker 2: Can I talk about like, what made me really realize the
difference between like us and actual journalists?
So James, you
and I talked about this over the weekend in Nashville
and we're like, okay, you know, we're gonna do this
and here's the timeline.
Here's what stuff's gonna come out.
I don't text Alex on race weekends,
so he was filled in after,
Speaker 1: Um, unless it's Can I go drink on your bus?
Speaker 2: No, I text Kelly for that now.
Speaker 1: Fair Speaker 2: . Anyway, uh, right
after you tell me this, everybody stresses like exactly
how secret all of this has to be.
How like, nobody can know that we're gonna be doing this
or any of the news that's coming out.
And probably within 30 seconds of that,
I got a text from Nathan Brown saying like, can't wait
to listen to Off Track this week here.
It's going to be important. It was just like, oh.
So that's how like a real journalist gets
information that quickly.
Like I would never be able to do that.
Like any illusion that I had that I was Woodward
and Bernstein went away when it was like, oh no, no,
James just told me what I was doing for work that week.
Speaker 1: Oh, in turn, instead of like you having to go out
and find a story you mean? Yeah,
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Got it, got it, got it, got it. Yeah.
No, we're not real journalists.
I want that to be very clear.
Um, but I, uh,
but like there we have some semblance of like a real
news outlet now .
'cause we had two kind of stories,
which is pretty neat guys.
Okay. So yeah, let me do, we wanna talk about like,
as we did the interviews, but you
and I haven't got to like discuss Yeah.
The topic of the week. Yeah.
So should we talk about Coleman probably stepping away from
IndyCar Yeah.
To be the Cadillac development and test driver
and willpower stepping likely meaning he's gonna do F two
unconfirmed, but kind of, uh,
and then willpower stepping into the Android machine.
So, I mean, let's start at Colton. Holy man.
Like that's, I know we said it on the show like we said it
to him, but like the balls that it takes to make that move,
it's hard to, it's hard to overstate
what a ballsy move that is.
Speaker 3: You're right. Um,
but at the same time, I think when you're faced
with that decision
and the ballsy move is the only opportunity you have
to potentially fulfill a dream
that you've had since you were a kid, it's also
a no brainer, right?
Like, I, I feel like the majority
of people in his shoes would do that.
Not saying that it's an easy decision,
but I completely understand why he's doing it
and I don't second guess it whatsoever.
Like, so it, it makes sense to me regardless
of the inherent risk that goes along with it.
It makes sense, does it? Not to you
Speaker 1: On paper from 30,000 feet.
Okay. But when you are leaving the IndyCar race
that you just won
and you're on your charter jet back
to your mansion in Las Vegas
and you're gonna golf, you know, two days that week
and you're like, oh, I, I've gotta pretty much give up all
of that to maybe make this dream come true.
I'm not saying that you wouldn't do it,
but it's like, it's, it's so easy for us
to sit here and be like, yeah, it makes sense.
But like, dude, people get comfortable, but,
Speaker 3: But you're not giving it up forever.
Speaker 1: But you don't know that there's no
guarantees in this business, man.
There's no guarantees in this business.
You know, like Will power could be winning championships
till he is 50 or like I was gonna
Speaker 3: Say, it's not like anybody good is taking
Speaker 1: His seat. He doesn't need to
Speaker 3: Worry about .
Let me, I mean, let's, let's stop, let's stop
that conversation for a second
because I think this is a very different situation to a,
let's use the Sebastian Bordea example. Okay.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that. Speaker 3: Dom dominates in Jam car
wins four titles.
Is it Newman Ha is in the, the best equipment and
and the best situation that he can have there leaves a,
a championship winning organization
and goes to an Italian kind of B team at the time
in, in Toso,
Speaker 1: But at the level he wants
to be at right? In formula. But at
Speaker 3: The level, at the level he wants to be at
Speaker 1: Much easier call.
Speaker 3: No, and here's where Speaker 1: Guarantees,
Speaker 3: Okay.
No, but here's where I disagree with you
because ultimately Colton has in,
in some ways he has his cake and he's eating it too.
He is leaving the team that he is employed by
to go work for the team that he is still employed by.
Yes, sure. Who is still gonna have a team that
exists under his current employer in the
foreseeable couple of years.
If this all went terribly wrong,
and don't tell me that Dan would be like, oh,
this whole thing was a disaster.
Sorry kid, you're out. I I like my three guys now.
Thanks for playing. I don't believe that would happen.
Whereas Bordea said, thank you Carl Haas, I'm outta here.
I'm gonna go do my own thing
with this whole new group of people.
If it works out, I've achieved my dream, great.
If it doesn't work out, I'm gonna have to now renegotiate
and find myself in a different landscape.
Potentially. Maybe Newman host still exists
and maybe Newman host will have him back,
but he's leaving the same employer.
He's under the same employer.
He is just going to a different department of that employer.
Right. So I don't agree
that while you say there's no guarantees,
I think in some respects this has a safety net in
Speaker 1: It.
So the, I I completely understand what you're saying
and that is completely logical and
that is the more likely scenario.
If for some reason things over in Europe don't work out,
the likely results would be colding,
a backend Indy car with Andre.
Right. That is highly likely, but it's not a guarantee.
And like the, the analogy I would give is waking
Speaker 3: Up tomorrow isn't a guarantee.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Absolutely. Great point.
But like in a, I actually think he meant that as a threat.
, uh, the, the analogy
that kind of, kind of comes to mind right?
Is let's say, okay,
so when I decided to stop racing,
any cars full time happened to coincide with
a time where the TV broadcaster had an opening in the booth
that they were trying to fill.
And I had showed an interest in that, whatever.
Okay, Tim, it is
infuriating that you're a part
of this show sometimes for viewers at home.
He just left and came back wearing a cowboy hat
for an inexplicable reason.
Oh, I'm sorry. Criticizing.
Oh, I'm just against another hat. See, it's just No, just
all your choice of hats though.
The only hats that we dislike anyway,
had I decided, oh, you know
what I'm gonna, I'm gonna do one more year.
Jesus Christ . What?
Speaker 3: This is Speaker 1: Not good enough for you. Why is this?
Why do you even know that's the best one?
That's the best one you've got. Why do you even have that?
It's Hazel's that explains why it doesn't quite fit weird.
Speaker 3: It's weird that it fits your well. I disagree. It
Speaker 1: It sure doesn't .
No, it's, that's very real hair hanging out the side. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh, got it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. James a time where it
Speaker 1: Coincided.
No, no, I'm, I'm gonna let him change two
or three more hats before I continue.
There's one more, but it's
Speaker 3: Upstairs so I'm probably gonna
Speaker 1: Unrelated.
I'll be right back. Yeah, that's what I thought.
So if I had decided to, like, you know
what I'm gonna do one more year,
but these guys have said they want me in the booth,
but just one more year and they'll fill it with somebody
and then I'll stop at the end of the next year
and then I'll go in the booth
and whoever they put in for
that year ends up being like really good at the job.
They all of a sudden, like, eh, I don't know man.
Like you pass up an opportunity and,
and he's here now and he's pretty good.
So,
Speaker 3: But James Sure.
Um, fortunately for Colton, uh, Andretti Global,
which is um, has lots
Speaker 1: Of booths.
Speaker 3: no, it's Yes. Is owned by his current employer,
um, has plenty of booths.
Yeah. Uh, so just because his his booth number is gone,
it doesn't mean that there's not Booth 27
and Booth 28 that exists. Yes.
Speaker 1: So, yes. Okay. That's fair. Um, again, I agree with you.
I do think it's solid point, an awesome move.
Yeah, good point. Um, but yes, it is.
You just have to accept that there are no where,
Speaker 3: Where I think where I think the risk comes into play
and where I agree with the, the balls that it takes
is we all know in this sport you are, you're
as good as your last race.
I mean, and, and that's just the, the fact of the matter.
So his stock value from a global perspective
could potentially drop if, if the formula right?
Let's say he's racing in F two.
Again, that hasn't been confirmed,
but we're just assuming that could be,
for me, that's the bigger risk.
I fully think that if he finished 20th in F two next year,
which he is not gonna do, he was still come back to IndyCar
and race Indy cars and go win races
and everything that would hurt his stock value.
That would hurt IndyCar's stock value.
And he would be left with this.
Like, I mean, that's a, that would be a tougher pill
to swallow than had he never stepped out of his comfort zone
and never done anything else
and just was seen as one
of the elite IndyCar drivers of this generation.
So his, his reputation is at risk per in,
in that regard.
I don't think his career
as a race car driver is in jeopardy
by doing this decision. Is, I guess is,
Speaker 1: I think it's my final point.
I think it's great. I think it's great.
And I think you brought up another really good point
that we did not ask him about
and did not make sure we pointed out to add just
a fairly significant amount
of pressure to the whole situation.
Uh, yeah. IndyCar's reputation is on the line here.
Every driver that's on the current grid
who has lost races to Colin Herda is like, bro,
don't, you don't <inaudible>
don't <inaudible> this up for me.
Don't ruin this for us.
So that's actually kind of cool
'cause all these people that he used to race against are now
gonna be cheering him on so hard.
Like the amount
of support he is gonna get from the IndyCar paddock is more
than he ever got when he was driving an IndyCar paddock.
Speaker 3: No. Yes.
Like everyone is gonna be like, bitch,
you better not miss an
Apex Speaker 1: .
But here's, here's where I feel you better see the good
Speaker 3: About it outta those tires, pal. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Here's where I feel good about it is
he's been in an F1 car
and we have heard the reports from
that very positive hello has been in an F1 car.
I saw that with my own eyes, very positive.
Patto has been in an F1 car. I've seen him do that.
Very positive. Colton is he races these guys like this is
the same, these are the same level of driver.
So the, the, the weird thing about F two is that,
you know, certain drivers have kind of bad seasons in F two
and it makes them look really bad.
But like look, I like, I made the joke,
I think at some point probably on the show, it's like,
it was pretty fortuitous that Ollie Bearman
and Kimmy Antonelli had F1 deals kind of lined up
before their last season of F two
because neither one of them really killed it.
You know, they had a couple good races,
but not like, oh my God,
the whole F1 grid's gonna be rushing to sign this guy.
Uh, you know, they didn't finish top
five in the championship.
I don't think. I kind of forget,
but they certainly weren't running up
there at the beginning.
'cause teams are different and not all of them are great.
So even if he doesn't do well in F two,
and I say that in a relative sense,
let's say he finishes fourth in the
championship in F two, right.
Wins a couple races, but three other guys beat him handily.
The the judgment call is gonna have to be made on
how his performance is in fp ones in the F1 simulator in TPC
testing because F two is just not always the most
accurate barometer.
Speaker 3: And, and, and the reason for that is it's very,
it's very hard.
It's not very hard from a standpoint
of the cars aren't complicated.
Um, the cars are actually pretty straightforward
and cold is way, way too qualified.
Yeah. From a technical standpoint and understand
Speaker 1: Probably less, probably less complicated than Indy car.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Um,
but the people that
usually are good enough to have been doing it for a couple
of years mm-hmm .
And so yes, you obviously have these rookies
that are outliers that adapt very quickly
and they're in a very good situation.
And it just so happens that that year's car
and tire just blends
with their driving style and all this sort of thing.
But ultimately there's guys that the latter system to F1
is very similar to that of IndyCar.
Like, you don't go to Indy next regardless of your pedigree.
And immediately as rookie, just you're,
you're not guaranteed to dominate.
It doesn't matter what you did in previous categories.
Obviously Kyle Kirkwood is an,
but Colton wasn't, paddle wasn't, um,
Christian Rasmussen wasn't like it.
It takes a little bit of acclimation.
And when you're going up against guys
who might be in their second or third year
and have seen these tracks before in these scenarios
and the tires and this specific race craft that you have
to have to make the tires last for the whole distance,
considering there's only one pit stop and,
and this sort of thing.
That's where I think it's gonna be really hard.
But ultimately, as we said on Tuesday, you're putting one
of the best guys in who is up to the, up to the task
because he's not someone who is stuck in his ways.
Like he's very adaptable.
Um, you know, I was concerned for him when I first knew
that he was going from the B-M-W-G-T-L-M car
to the Acura GTP car, which is a, a very, very
difficult car to drive from a technique standpoint
and a complete departure from an Indy car.
I would say the GTP actor's pretty close to
how you would drive an F two car or even an F1 car.
And he immediately was like, bam.
Ricky Taylor, who was his teammate,
was like instantly on the pace he actually finished
the race for the team.
I think it was in, um, one of the endurance races.
I don't, I don't wanna quote which one.
And if you're finishing the race,
it means you are the quickest driver throughout
that entire kind of day slash weekend.
So I think he is, he is the best guy in IndyCar,
aside from maybe a Alex Pallo, um, suited to adapt
to this sort of thing and,
and change his driving style on, on the fly.
Like he's gonna have to. So it's gonna be, I'm just, as much
as I'm excited for 2026 for IndyCar, I'm excited
for 2026 just to watch that.
We need to figure out how, how are we gonna stream that.
Speaker 1: I, I'm also like, I'm kind of, I'm kind of annoyed
that it got announced so early
'cause now we've gotta like wait,
like it would've been better to not really know
until November and then he only had to wait a couple months.
Like, we gotta wait a while now for him to,
to get making some some moves if he's
Speaker 3: Doing it, Speaker 1: If he's doing it.
And then, all right, let's move on to the other side.
Will power coming in to Andretti that I don't think,
was it, it was so interesting
because like nobody thought there was an opening at Andretti
until one of these rumors of, of Colin going to f two star,
like Milwaukee, somebody,
I think Marshall Pruitt said it on his podcast
or something like that was the first time it had
kind of been circulated. Really?
Speaker 3: No, I mean it was July publicly mid July. But yeah.
Speaker 1: And so as the, as the Will news kind of gets more
and more, hey don't look like he's going back to Penske.
It was, oh, he's going to raha.
Oh they're gonna straight swap Ma Lucas for power
and he's gonna go to the four car.
Like, there was all these scenarios being played out.
I heard, I heard somebody say that
Nessi was going run a fourth car for him at one point.
Like all these crazy, you
Speaker 3: Knows PLO was going F1.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, true. P was going F1 at one point
and like I feel like Andretti was just the bottom
of the bottom of most people's Bingo cards.
And then all of a sudden this happens and, and there we go.
So how do you think, sorry,
Tim, did you have something there?
Speaker 2: Sorry. I was just gonna say, it's also interesting
that uh, you know, I think we, we commented on it,
everybody else commented on it about
how it was in his contract that he couldn't talk
to other teams until, what was it, the first of this month.
And that ended up, you know, we, we learned yesterday
that Roger let him do
Speaker 1: That.
Yeah, no, it was, I think it was even before that.
I think, actually, I think didn't Dan say that
or will say one of them say
that Road America Roger gave him after?
Yeah, it was like after Detroit. So like Road America time.
Um, yeah, he was allowed to start talking teams. Yeah.
And I'm sure he spoke to you.
'cause like I said, on Tuesday,
every team in the paddock would've picked up the phone
and been like, Hey man, what's, what's going on?
But dude, how about the fact that at the end
of the day they did offer him a
deal and he turned it down.
How about that? How about 17 years of the team, all
that success, the start of the year saying,
yeah, no, I want to be here.
But by the end of the year it was like, you know what?
I don't know if this is the right spot for me anymore.
And he actually turned out.
So like that means Penske was really still trying
to figure out what they were gonna do if willed said yes.
Is is Lucas just back at Fot for another season now
that they've said now that they're like, oh no,
we do want Will, but then Will said no.
Now are they like willingly taking the guy
that they had kind of already decided wasn't ready,
or at least wasn't better than Will.
Like this is a interesting situation is,
Speaker 3: Is Reus vk in in, Speaker 1: Oh my God, yes.
In the game here announced today
that Rena's VK is not returning to Del Coy racing.
So that's an
interesting development.
I think a lot of people assumed that was happening.
That had been such a successful pairing.
And yes, Reinas had said, we, I was talking to their teams
and whatever, but like you do the math on
what seats are available
and there wasn't really a lot of options.
Certainly not options that were running better
in points than he was.
But he always said he is like, yeah,
willpower's kinda the big domino here.
And we thought that was
because, oh, maybe that opens us up the
Foyt car or whatever.
But man, uni dubenski question mark.
Speaker 3: I mean, potentially.
'cause here's, here's, um, well,
is it true that Reus has more podiums in 2025 than Lucas
Speaker 1: Reus?
Doest have a podium this year. Does he?
Speaker 3: Toronto? Speaker 1: Oh yeah, of course. No, Lucas was podium.
Well he was, he ended up net second at the 500. Right,
Speaker 3: Okay.
So same. Okay. I just,
Speaker 1: He, he also, I mean, and,
and Lucas's defense, he got boned out of a couple,
like not guaranteed podiums,
but races he was running right up front in Iowa.
In Milwaukee?
In Nashville, no,
not Nashville, but Iowa and Milwaukee.
He had two where he got, was running
up front and got totally bumped. But
Speaker 3: Anyway.
Okay. Well, regardless, I I, um,
Speaker 1: It's always more top tens.
Speaker 3: It's, it's always been an interesting,
an interesting thing for me, right?
Because we all, we all can see
and know, um, that David is, is is probably the future
of, of some organization,
but very, very similar to college quarterbacks, right?
Like, that doesn't mean that when they get in the NFL,
they're immediately at the level of whatever organization
that they're playing for.
I still don't know yet if David is at the Team Penske level.
I mean, maybe he is and,
and maybe that that's just me as competitor talking, um,
without having all of the information that
that clearly they do considering they're the, the kind
of force behind the four car.
Um, but you know, we, we talked about it a lot.
It was always a weird, that was always a weird move, um,
that was happening
that Will was finding himself in that position.
But again, to your point, I think we touched on it
after Portland, you know, when Will made
that comment saying, who says it isn't up to me?
And I think that so much had happened over the past,
over the summer where will felt that he wasn't being valued
and he wasn't being cherished.
And, and after all of the, the time
and commitment that he had put into the organization,
he felt that, you know, he,
especially being the highest running Penske driver
throughout the entire season,
shouldn't have been put in a position to be waiting
for a contract sort of thing.
And I think that that really weighed heavily on him.
Um, so I wouldn't be surprised if, if ultimately
that was the catalyst for, for his decision post Nashville.
Speaker 1: What's, what's, what's important for, like,
what's important for me, for myself
to get out there is I I do feel like we've spoken a lot
about the Power Lucas thing
for the last several months, right?
And it was always like a what,
like why is this a conversation?
What's happening here? And I wanna be very clear that like,
it, it, that is not an indication of, of the ability
or the talent or the potential I think that Lucas has right?
And correct. And we've both said this,
but I just wanna be very clear about that.
This is in no way trying to put David down or,
or undermine his success and his potential at all.
It's just that we were talking about willpower here,
who is right on a different level from a
Speaker 3: Lot of that.
I don't think a single driver in the paddock,
myself included, is in a place to be replacing willpower.
Like let's just put that out there.
Exactly. Let's just say that. Perfect.
Speaker 1: Thank you. Perfect. So, so now
that willpower is not an option for the 12 car
Penske have an opening and of the available drivers,
where do you rank David?
Because like, he's gonna be at right
at the top of that list, right?
Reus is obviously now a free agent. Mm-hmm .
Um, you know, Foster's locked up,
but even if he wasn't still probably too young
and too inexperienced and not enough, you know,
not proven enough for that ride,
who else is in a contract situation?
You know, the McLaren guys are all buttoned up.
Speaker 3: Graham's not. No, I think, Speaker 1: I think, I think
Speaker 3: You're, it's purely between Lucas and,
and Reus at this point, which is, so, so Reus was on a,
on a similar trajectory as Lucas minus the
Lucas supported, sorry, the Penske supported entry, right.
You know, reus was, was tipped as kind
of the next hot young shoe.
Um, you know, we all saw that, um,
Penske put a lot of credit in what, in what Joseph did with
SFH, which became ECR.
Obviously Joseph turned out to be one of the best drivers,
um, of, of this generation of IndyCar.
Reus was kind of doing the same path.
He, you know, ECR was was a small team.
He was winning races, he was winning Poles.
He almost won another race in Barber.
Um, he was very fast at Indianapolis,
was consistently the best Chevy, um,
even against Team Penske cars.
And I think for a while he was kind of slated as, you know,
a, a tip or, or a one day a, a future Penske driver just
because of, of his trajectory.
And then, you know,
timing is everything in motorsports, right?
Penske, you know,
ended up getting a pretty stout driver lineup
with McLaughlin coming on and being as good as he was.
Obviously Joseph was winning championships
and five hundreds Will was doing what he's doing.
So there wasn't really, at the time
where Reus was maybe peaking,
there wasn't really a spot for him.
And so Reus, you know, had
to continue down a path that he was on.
And now that there is a seat
and now that Reus had the year that he did in a team that,
you know, is viewed as probably the bottom
of the barrel in IndyCar, why wouldn't Penske be like, Hey,
we were looking at this guy four years ago, we know
what he's done.
What he did this year clearly has shown
that he hasn't lost any of the ability
that we knew he had, right?
Is he our guy? Because maybe through the last couple
of years at, at ECR, they had kind of been like, ah, he's,
it's, it's not gonna be the right fit,
or we don't think he's, he has the potential
that we thought he had or whatever, but now that's all back.
So I don't know, maybe, I don't know.
That's just my guesstimations without knowing anything.
Speaker 1: What I love about the REUS
2025 situation is,
it is another example of which there are dozens
and dozens in IndyCar over the years that
proves how important the environment
that a driver is in is to their success.
You would not look at Delco racing
and ECR as equal teams
from a resource standpoint, right?
Things at ECR did not work out for Reuss.
The results weren't there. Like that's, that's, you know,
as, as I, I know he was shocked
that he was let go at the end of that term.
Um, but I, I think
that's probably more just based
on conversations that he'd had.
And if you like, just look at the
outright performance of the team.
Like I, I get why I had wanted to make a a change, right?
It needed to happen. But then you take that guy,
that same dude a year later, put him in a team
with less resource and they make magic
happen more often than not.
And it just proves that to me, in a series
where everything is so close
and so tight, the people that you have around you, it's
so critical, man.
You have to have the right engineer, you have
to have the right data person,
you need the right crew chief,
you need the right team owner.
You need the right culture, environment
and atmosphere to let you thrive as a driver.
And every driver's different, right?
In which environments make them reach their peak.
I I is unique. And so what I love about the, the reus
DCR experiment is it shows that yeah, reus found a place
that he's very happy in
and he's still very capable of,
of delivering as a racing driver.
What would be interesting is if he did go to Penske,
is that environment one that allows him to thrive and,
and still be his best version
because that's kind of known to be a bit
of a unique environment even within the IndyCar world.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean it's that, that point
and that parallel, we have an example of that not
to the scale of DCR to Penske,
but we have it with DCR to Andretti, we have it
with DCR to Nessi.
And, and a lot of people forget about Ed Jones, right?
Mm-hmm . No, ed Jones is not Reuss vk.
Ed Jones is not Rome Mount Rojan in terms of a talent level.
But people, ed Jones in a coin car had some as,
as a rookie, like, had some really good results
and good drives and good finishes and, and,
and accomplished a lot and got put in the 10 car
and it was a disaster immediately let go.
Okay? You do the same thing
with Rojan in the 18 was on pole at NDGP
should have won probably two races,
but that team in pit lane and,
and just can't compete quite at the level that it needed to,
but from a speed perspective,
probably should have won two races, goes to Andretti
and doesn't.
Yes, he probably should have won a couple
of races than Andretti too.
But the point is, the end result at the end
of the year was substantially worse
and the environment was worse
and it didn't, it didn't end up being successful.
Mm-hmm . And so he ends up out of a, out of a, out
of race car after a year at Juncos, right?
So it's a very interesting point,
but the same point could be said for really anyone,
you know, Lucas, a hundred percent.
If we take that example, right,
I mean it's, it's pretty cool.
You look at, let's use Red Bull F1 as an example, okay? It's
Speaker 1: Just a guess thing.
Speaker 3: They're different cars, I understand that,
but ultimately, you know, you've got Red Bull, which is,
let's call it the Penske, right?
And then you have Racing Bulls, which is the AJ Foyt.
So you're getting the technical support,
you're getting the help, you're getting the engineering
support, management support from the big team,
but you're in the younger kind of more relaxed,
more fun environment.
No one's really expecting anything of you.
It's just go out and drive as fast as you can.
And if you get a result, wow, you're a hero.
And if you don't, it's like, yeah.
I mean, okay, that's to be expected, right?
Again, same thing in a, in a Foyt car,
it's like you're driving for Foyt, we're not expecting you
to win races, but you're qualifying on the front
row, blah, blah, blah, all this stuff.
Boom, you're in the 12 car.
Now we need race wins challenging for five, five hundreds,
dude competing for championships.
Speaker 1: I was having this conversation
with someone yesterday when you are in the Foy car
and, and, and like, again, this is, this is very kind
of specifically the, the Lucas situation, right?
And again, I feel like we, I feel like I, I hope he knows
this like I'm a fan, fine.
Let's, I'm a David Luc fan, right? Let, right,
Speaker 3: Let's, let's stop using this as an example.
Let's talk about the Shenk guys. 'cause it's the same thing.
It's the exact same thing
that Armstrong's dealing with right
Speaker 1: Now.
Okay. But, but let's look.
Well, but it's it's in reverse though.
So like, my, my point about, about Dave was, you know, he,
so he switches to Foy and there's the, the Penske Alliance,
whatever find cool when you're at that team,
bad days are kind of glossed over
and good days are celebrated a lot, right?
People really remember those pop performances
and they kind of just, the, the 15th place finishes sort
of dissolve into the ether
because everyone's like, well it's a white car anyway.
Say you're focused on the winter, whatever, whatever.
But when you're at Penske, the baseline is so high
that bad days are probably
actually focused on more than your good days.
You're celebrated. 'cause the good days are the expectation
and the bad days are the standouts
that are actually gonna get a lot of focus and attention.
And that's just a really different
environment for a driver to be in.
And you know, there's, Dave's done nothing to say
that he can't perform under that kind of pressure.
Like the way he jumped back into MSR
after getting dropped by McLaren was cinema.
It's beautiful. It was, it was incredible.
Still injured, still coming back.
Not sure how he was gonna do and he killed it.
Like that's what led to this opportunity in a lot of ways.
So I'm not saying I don't think you can do it,
but it is gonna be a very, very different kinda kind
of situation where, you know, your good days, you're kind
of like the gentle pat on the back, like, good job,
you did your job and the bad days.
You're like, well what's going on here? Like, this is bad.
We need to fix this. And it's, it's an interesting,
it's an interesting situation to know you're going into if
that's, if that's the move.
Speaker 3: But I think it's the exact same thing
with the MSR. I don't think it's the opposite
Speaker 1: For Armstrong. How do you mean?
Speaker 3: Well, so Armstrong is a Nessy employee, right? Ultimately.
Sure. Not having, well he is, he's under contract with CGR
but ultimately is not in CGR at CGR
and he's not Alex Pelosi's teammate.
Okay. He is Felix Rosenquist teammate. Oh no.
Because no, you gotta call a spade a spade.
Ma Lucas took the same exact car that will did
to ninth in the championship to 13th.
So you'd say that despite all of the discrepancies between
Willpower and David Lucas or Willpower, or Team Penske
and AJ Foyt, like it actually,
the end result ended up being pretty close.
Right. David had some bad luck, will had some bad luck.
I mean, he beat Joseph in the championship.
So my point is the, the smaller team,
subsidiary team expectation,
because people are, are hailing the year that Felix
and Marcus had, which is granted it was the best year the
MSR had had from a championship standpoint,
both cars in the top 10,
both cars were on the podium at different points,
they were good across all tracks, yada, yada,
yada. And that is true,
Speaker 1: And that is Speaker 3: Correct first and third, but
PLO and Dixon were first and third.
Speaker 1: So wait, and so, so you can't say that, you can't say that
that Armstrong's not Polo's teammate
and then compare them in the
championship in that way, right?
You have to accept like, what's the definition
of a teammate in this sense?
They share engineering, they share setups like
for all they share data for all intents
and purposes, they're teammates, right?
Speaker 3: But that's the exact same thing
as I guess the Lucas situation at Foyt.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. I'm saying if you're,
if you're gonna compare Lucas and power for having the same
Speaker 3: Car, no, that wasn't you, that wasn't my point.
No, that wasn't my point. My point was echoing
what you were saying in terms
of when you're on the smaller team,
people are celebrating the Right, sorry, yes.
The big days. Yes. Right. And
Speaker 1: Not really Speaker 3: Thinking about it because it's like, oh,
he drives for MSR Well, it's like, no, not really.
I mean, he drives for asse, right? So it's the same.
Yeah, yeah, it's the same thing.
So whereas the media and,
and ultimately this is all really we're discussing the fans,
we're discussing the media perception, everything.
I can guarantee you internally Penske is analyzing
what David is doing every single session for sure at Foyt.
Yeah. So if, if they're gonna put him in the car,
they are gonna, they feel that he's ready.
It's not like they don't have the information.
It's not like they're just looking at a,
a score box at the end of, of the weekend.
So I guess full circle, what I'm saying is,
while it's all maybe a surprise to everyone
as we discussed that someone would be replacing willpower
if he is given the nod, it's because they've seen
and they know way more than all we do,
that he is more than capable of filling those shoes.
So I guess that's a hundred percent, that's my end end point
Speaker 1: With the slight caveat being
that they offer Bill a contract.
So of the allegedly guys available, allegedly.
No, I think Penske had said that in their thing.
Speaker 3: Did okay, or Yes.
I don't think they said they offered,
offered him a contract.
They said Will, will decided to go his own way
and decided something else was good for the future.
There's a lot of times where teams had been asked to put it
that way so that it doesn't look
as though the driver's getting fired. That
Speaker 1: Is true. I just wanna check.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I guess the counter to that would be that, uh,
you know, we heard from Will that he claims
that they, they did offer
Speaker 3: Him so Well, I was, I was not on that part
of the show, so my apologies.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I forgot. Yeah. Speaker 3: Anyways,
that point doesn't really matter.
Um, what does matter
is people watched in Nashville. Hell, oh,
Speaker 2: Bro, yes they did.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Like, look, we're gonna save talking about Nashville
for next week 'cause we don't have a race to talk about.
Uh, so, and we're outta time,
but let's just, let's just high actually, yeah, I do wanna
quickly touch on this incredible, uh, run.
So yes, the Nashville Race, uh,
delivered 1.1 million viewers peaked, I think 1.3
and over the course of the year, let's round of applause
for Fox Sports in year one.
Obviously we know any 507 million
averaging over the entire season.
1.362 million viewers,
which is a 27% year over year increase in the most watched
season in 17 years.
Most audience growth for plus 27%
for any sport averaging at least a million viewers.
Massive lift in the 18 to 34
and 18 to 49 demographics, 81 and 51% respectively.
Uh, huge increase in female viewers with females 18
to 34 up 72%
and females 18 to 49, up 30%. Thanks
Speaker 3: Patto.
Speaker 1: Thanks Patto. So yeah, guys, look, big deal.
It's a, it's awesome
and I can tell you it's to a lot of hard work, man. ,
I saw it all happen in the background.
Uh, I contributed very little, tiny little bit myself,
but the, the, the group at Fox that, uh,
that jumped into this program,
and we've talked about it a lot at the top of the year,
so many people were brand new to IndyCar.
A bunch were brand new to motor sports, and they showed up
and it, it improved, I think every single week.
The efforts from, again, every single member of, you know,
people from IMSP, the people from Fox, everybody
that touched the broadcast, uh, was, was a monumental one.
And it was one that, uh, I watched a lot of people that,
again, were brand new to this sport, kind
of slowly fall in love with IndyCar racing,
because that's what happens when you
get exposed to IndyCar racing.
You fall in love with IndyCar racing.
And, uh, and this year obviously 1.3 million people on
average, were watching IndyCar racing
and we're slowly getting
more of the country to fall in love with it.
So, um, yeah, huge credit to Fox Sports. Huge applause.
Huge thank you for year one and more exciting stuff to come.
But I think we in there and we talk Nashville next week and,
and Markham, so, oh, and Markum, oh God.
We might even have a schedule
by the time we record next week.
Who knows? God, Marco, there's no chance.
Yeah, we gotta talk, we gotta talk about Markham.
Very excited. All right, thanks guys.
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