Speaker 1: This is off track.
Oh man, it is.
It's the May hangover. The May hangover's a real thing.
It's a really real thing. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Could you imagine if you were also hungover right now?
No. I, IM not.
Speaker 3: I sure can are. I sure can imagine that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I thought, Hmm, nevermind.
Um, yeah, but in, in, in our defense,
or to counteract your point, you didn't really work as hard
as the rest of us this month.
You weren't even here the whole time. So
Speaker 2: You didn't even, he didn't even
run a marathon in the same trip you were here.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was totally the last trip.
Speaker 3: Wait, okay. No, you did do the gp.
I was gonna ask if I was the only one of the three of us
that finished a race this month,
but you did do the GP at Barber.
So , I guess you did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, dude, we worked Barbara, then we worked the gp.
Speaker 3: I mean, you talked, talked about it.
Speaker 1: Do you have any idea how much work that is? Sometimes
Speaker 2: It's so hard.
Speaker 1: It's so hard. It's so hard. Let's not talk about,
let's not talk about the 30, no, what was it,
40, 50 something hour?
I forget how many hours we did of broadcasting this month
on top of several live show podcasts and charity events
and et cetera, et cetera.
I just don't wanna talk. But guys,
we're gonna be on a podcast for the next hour. So
Speaker 3: Giddy up special.
Two parter this week, to really just keep talking, right?
Speaker 1: We figured, you know,
technically this is a Tuesday episode, but it's post 500
and everybody wants to hear about the 500.
We don't wanna wait till Thursday for that.
So we're gonna do the main show,
which is gonna be an extended main show,
cut up over two episodes Tuesday and Thursday. It's part
Speaker 2: One's coming at you hot. It's part ones heavy,
Speaker 1: Coming at your hard, just like there's,
Speaker 3: We're on fire.
Um, wow. Where do we even start? , there was so
Speaker 1: Mean, do it chronologically Speaker 3: To happen.
Speaker 1: Do we go back to,
because what's important
to remember is our last show was recorded on a Tuesday
and on Wednesday is when everything post qualifying drama.
Speaker 3: Oh, God. Exploded. I wasn't even thinking about
that. Speaker 1: .
Yeah. So like, we have not talked about the Penske firings
and the cars getting kicked to the back and,
or maybe, maybe we knew they were going to the back.
I don't remember exactly the
Speaker 3: Criminal, I think we knew they were going to the back.
Yeah, I think we did. Yes.
Yeah, we didn't talk about Centric
and Yep. All you would
Speaker 2: Say the other two names, Speaker 3: I forget.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm. Kyle Wire and Ron Raki.
Speaker 3: Anyway, yes, I did know that. I just woke up.
Speaker 1: Um, it feel, that feels like it was a month ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Speaker 2: I mean, honestly, it's like,
not even that interesting to talk about
anymore Speaker 3: .
Speaker 2: Like that's how, that's how rapid things move.
But no, um, listen, oh, my, my, my apologies guys.
I'm, I'm quite ill. Um, thanks Tim.
I'm still gonna blame this on you.
Uh, even though you probably didn't do
it, I'm still gonna blame it on you. Pretty sure
Speaker 1: I didn't, but Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll take it.
I like it. So
Speaker 1: I think, I Speaker 2: Think, you know,
we covered a lot in last week's episode about, um, you know,
our thoughts and opinions and,
and all of these things that happened.
And I don't think it was, it was necessarily a surprise, um,
that there was some action taken in terms of personnel.
Um, but the magnitude and the amount I think was a surprise.
Wouldn't you agree with that, James?
Speaker 1: 1000% on all points.
Speaker 2: Like, 'cause I mean, when,
when things happen in corporations, forget motorsports, um,
and there's a kind of black eye associated
with said corporation.
And if it happens once, you know, there's usually a, a bit
of a grace situation and then it happens twice,
and there's usually things that are adjusted
and changed in the hierarchy of that organization.
So like, I, I guess all of that is understandable.
Um, but then when you look at like, the severity
of the punishment versus the crime committed, right?
I think that's another thing you have to
take into consideration.
It's like, I think, I don't know
that those two things necessarily add up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was weird. It was weird
because one thing I know we did cover was that the,
the, the issue in qualifying was not some,
like ASEP was some
Speaker 2: Software hacks, Speaker 1: Right?
Secret performance, performance enhancer, get an extra,
extra 50 horsepower kind of deal.
It was a very minor detail that everybody agreed.
Like I've heard other drivers on interviews
and stuff publicly saying that like, yeah,
from a performance standpoint it wasn't a big deal.
It's a black and white rule.
So yes, action needs to be taken, whatever.
Um, so to Alex's point, especially given the previous,
you know, season
and the issues that that had, there
some changes were probably not surprising.
The yeah, surprising part was you look at Cindrich,
Zuki and Moyer, those are like
the three top guys at the program for Penske's IndyCar deal.
So you're, you're just removing, like,
it's like looking at an org chart
and just taking the, just ripping the top off the page
and kind of starting from scratch.
That's a monumental thing to do.
Now again, this, this is where it gets kind
of weird is like, was that done?
Because Roger, just as a team, o let,
let's say he didn't have any say in anything else
and was just the head of Penske racing.
Is that the decision that he makes
because he doesn't like that twice in two years, something
of this magnitude happened,
or do we think it is, it was an exaggerated response
because of everything else?
Speaker 2: Well, based on the penalty, you'd, I mean,
I guess we'll never know, but based on the penalty,
you'd have to bias towards the latter, right?
Like, again, this is a attempt to, you know, show,
um, that he is not approving
of his team not being held to the highest
standard of accountability.
He's showing that he does not want the series
and its reputation to be tarnished because of his team.
And so actions are taken are
arguably incredibly severe because of that, right?
Had he say, chip owns the series, right?
I don't think three people get fired because of this, right?
I don't even know that one person gets fired.
One person might get moved or demoted
or suspended for a period of time, right?
But like, if you think about these guys, I mean,
especially Tim and Ron who have committed their entire lives
and, and careers to, to team Penske and, and everything
and have been there through some incredible times,
both positive and negative, like the, it's a,
it's a huge, huge decision.
And, and I'm sure it's not one that Roger came by lightly.
I'm, I'm not saying that Roger is wrong for doing this,
I'm not saying that this is something that, you know,
he wanted to do, but I feel like he probably felt
that his hand was forced
because of all of the, the conversation
that was surrounding this issue.
So, um, I feel just like, I felt bad for the,
the, the kind of hate that Joseph and Will were getting.
I feel terrible for TC and Ron and Kyle
because again,
I don't think these people were in boardrooms being like,
we need to, we need to putty the attenuator.
Like that's not, this wasn't some
directive that was coming from them.
Are they ultimately management?
Does the buck stop with them?
They like it has to with someone, right? But mm-hmm . Yeah.
I, I feel, I do feel very bad for them.
Speaker 1: It's, I I, and again, I feel bad also for the drivers
because, you know, uh,
TC has been on Joseph's stand for a very long time.
Um, Zuki Hass been on Wills stand for a very long time.
Moyer's been on McLaughlin stand,
I think his entire IndyCar career.
Mm-hmm . And these are, these are like team like, you know,
Speaker 2: Critical people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: This is like at mission critical position here, right?
You got driver engineer and,
and team manager slash strategist.
That's, that's the guy on the radio to you.
That's the person, you know, like you've had
that voice in your helmet for however many years
and then they're just gone three, four days, whatever it was
before the biggest race of the year.
It's that, that's a huge adjustment to make.
Um, and it's, uh, yeah, it's crazy.
But again, we don't know.
We don't know what goes on behind closed doors.
We don't know all the facts and,
and we don't know the whole story.
It is what it is. It's done.
A lot of people feel bad for a lot of people involved,
but, you know, people thought, certain people thought
that was the move that needed to be made.
Speaker 2: So here's, here's a wild, a wild scenario,
and I'm not gonna say who I was,
who I was talking to about it.
Um, but I was talking to someone at,
at Team Penske and I was like, who
Speaker 1: Was it?
Speaker 2: No. And um, they were like, oh,
do you wanna know what's like, I'm not really
that concerned about this weekend in terms
of like the restructuring and everything.
It's like, I mean, the ship's already sailed
and we're, we're pretty sorted and all this sort of thing
and it's strategizing the Indy 500
and calling that race as a group effort anyways.
Right? Right. It's never just one, one person's decision.
For sure. He, he, this person was like,
what I'm terrified about is showing up Monday to the office.
'cause like all the people that are responsible
for getting everything to Detroit
and turning everything around and doing X, y, and z
and logistics and all of this stuff are gone,
Speaker 1: Right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2: Like it's, it's now it's not making race
cars go fast, right?
It's a concern. It's like, oh, how do we do the simple shit?
Because I've never done that before.
Speaker 1: Because like we said, they are,
they are strategists slash team managers
for those individual cars, right.
And it's the team manager part. That's the bigger stress.
Speaker 2: Yes, a hundred percent Speaker 1: Once you
leave the racetrack. And
Speaker 2: I was like, that's a, that's a great point.
Good luck with that.
Speaker 1: Managing the team is actually evidently the trickier
bit. So Yeah,
Speaker 3: I I know we have a lot of other things to cover,
but I did have two questions on this.
I mean, one, how quickly do these three guys think get job
offers at other places?
Speaker 1: I mean, they'll get offers, they got offers eight minutes
after the press release came out.
But I imagine that there's some sort
of like non-compete clause
Speaker 3: I apply when you're fired.
Speaker 2: I have a question. I have a, I don't know.
Yeah, I was about that ask. I don't, it does like can you,
'cause Indiana's a right to work state now this is Charlotte
I guess, but like if you leave,
Speaker 3: If you quit, then there's the non-compete
Speaker 2: Maybe, right?
But if, if you get fired,
I don't think there can be a
non-compete, at least in Indiana.
Speaker 1: Okay. So maybe, I mean, again, we don nothing.
This is pure speculation. Yeah, yeah.
I have no idea what if the team was like,
I mean if it was me, if I was in, if I was in that kind
of position, I'd be like, yeah, yeah,
we're super firing you,
but like sign this, here's a big check
and you're now quitting
and you have a non-compete for six months or whatever it is.
But I don't know. I have no idea.
Speaker 3: I guess, I guess we'll find out, but um,
'cause you, you never want anybody to lose their job.
Speaker 1: No, no, exactly. And the,
but the answer to your question, Tim, is all
of their phones were ringing off the hook
as soon as the news came out.
Speaker 3: Um, and then I guess the other follow up question,
we don't really, there's no real answer to this,
but I just think it's worth bringing up.
You guys have talked about how
it's silly if you're blaming the drivers on that.
Completely agree.
Taking that in and already understanding that it's silly
to blame Joseph or, or will for this.
Why do you think it is that so many people are mad at Joseph
and not that many people are mad at will?
Speaker 2: Well, because it, it all ref it, it all reverts back
to the push to pass thing.
Right? Okay. So ultimately will didn't do it.
Ultimately Scott did it but immediately turned it off
and Joseph did it multiple times, right?
So there's already this like idea
of Joseph intentionally trying to do things.
Um, and so
wrongly this also gets attached to that also
Speaker 3: Because, because Joseph is not
putting Bondo on the car Of course. No, no, no.
Speaker 2: Also, also because, you know, there was, there's a lot
of differing opinions about how 2023 Indy 500 ended.
Right. Okay.
And the confusion about like,
why are we seeing something we've never seen before?
And a Penske car ends up winning on a decision
that was arguably made by Penske people
to finish the race under green.
Right. You've got that. And then
Bondo shows up in the museum on his car in 2024.
So I mean it's, it's all things that are
actually irrelevant to Joseph.
And Joseph is an innocent kind of bystander of it,
minus the push to pass thing.
Um, but that's why like, it's,
it's just things have built up and Yeah.
And Will hasn't been a, a party
to really any of those other things.
Speaker 3: Yeah. That makes sense. Thanks.
Speaker 1: Okay. It's funny 'cause I feel like I just want to,
I just want to, nah, I won't even get back into it.
It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. Um, alright,
Speaker 3: Well then we had, uh, we had everybody,
you made up two spots, um, after qualifying
before the race starts because of that.
Speaker 2: We're gonna skip over Carb day. Tim.
Speaker 1: No, we Speaker 3: No, I was gonna get into that, that
and then carb day and then was gonna point out later
that you made up another spot.
But I was just gonna, okay.
It was a thing in my head. I'm tired.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Say I feel like your head's
in a great place for us to be. Um, I
Speaker 3: Don't want being in it. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean there was Monday practice, which was fine. I guess
Speaker 3: We talked about that talked 'cause we did a live show
in the Tower Terrace after that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's right. Thanks again. Fun.
James Schwarze coming on board. That was cool.
Um, so yeah, so Carb Day. You heard the Carb Day show.
If you're a good human being, um, good
Speaker 2: For all of us for making an appearance by the way.
Speaker 1: Good for all of us for show.
Well, good for you and I for showing up.
And big, big props to Tim and Joey for being
Speaker 2: Out. No big props to Joey. Yeah,
Speaker 3: Props to big props to Joey.
I had to be there. That's true. Joey didn't .
Speaker 1: Um, big props. Hi buddy.
Oh s he looks so cute right now. Sorry, can
Speaker 3: I just say, I know we have other actual carb day stuff,
but if you haven't listened to it yet, the, the interview
with All American rejects at the end of that was awesome.
Those guys were so cool
and just, I could have hung out with them
for hours on those couches. So,
Speaker 2: So Tim, so Tim, you're not a big music guy.
Speaker 3: No. Um, I spent the rest of that night listening
to All American Rejects.
Again though , I felt like I was back in high school.
Speaker 2: Okay. Did you, I mean, would you say like, what,
what is your favorite like nineties punk rock band?
Speaker 3: I don't even know if I have one. Um, sugar Colt.
Does that count or were they more early two
thousands Sugar Colt?
Speaker 1: I'm not sure I know who that Speaker 2: Is. I know what that is.
Speaker 3: They're a good one. I'm gonna stick with that.
Speaker 1: That's probably a smart move.
'cause neither one of us can comment on it. Yeah.
And thus criticize you for it.
So that was probably a good play. Good play.
Speaker 2: Interesting. Anyways, um, I'm
Speaker 1: Gonna golf clap that. So
Speaker 2: What was, what was, what was so, uh,
what was so cool about 'em? Like I I'm not gonna
Speaker 3: Listen.
They came out and just immediately made fun of Joey
and I like, I love that they hit it.
They, they got the vibe right. Maybe I'll listen so quickly.
They were just fun. Cool.
It was every, they were
engaged, all the questions were cool.
And don't get me wrong, creed was also awesome.
Um, just all American rejects felt like four
guys I just wanna go hang out with. So
Speaker 1: Let me ask this question.
'cause I tried really hard to beat this into you beforehand.
While you were interviewing Creed,
did you guys make silly Creed puns using their lyrics?
Speaker 3: We did a little bit. Mm.
It was, it was kind of hard
because we were up against
the Oscar Meyer Wienermobile race,
which is just like an absurd statement that,
like we were interviewing Creed while Oscar Meyer
wiener mobiles were racing.
Well, let's, let's get to that.
So to lost a lot of crowd for that.
Speaker 1: Right? Okay, let's, let's get to that. Um, the fix
Speaker 3: Suzanne, right? They faked that.
Speaker 1: Your, your car. I, I don't know.
Um, your carb day practice was kind
of irrelevant 'cause you broke apart.
Actually no, sorry. I do need to ask this question. Oh boy.
So watching, watching the broadcast,
you have five laps on the board
and we see the 20 rolling back through gas alley
and the report back from one of our pit reporters was
there is a water pump failure.
Is this correct?
Speaker 2: I mean, yes. Speaker 1: Cool water pump failure.
And so you were leaking fluids.
Very happy that that didn't cause an accident.
'cause water leaking onto your rear tires
at speed could be bad.
Speaker 2: Don't worry. We tried something like that later.
Speaker 1: Cool, cool. You did sort of do that. That's true.
Um, here was my, and then,
and then it was cars not expected
to make it back out in practice
because they had to go to Detroit to get a new part.
Speaker 2: Um, they did not have to go to Detroit.
Detroit had to come to us.
Speaker 1: Sorry. A a part was having to be Yeah. Sent from Detroit.
So my question was my here's, I could not fathom
that there was any part of an IndyCar
or the engines or the electronics or the whatever.
I could not fathom that there's any part
that bolts onto a IndyCar at the in 500
that there wasn't one spare of on the entire property.
Speaker 2: So fair, you're taking this incredibly literally.
Um, there was a water pump. The water pumps are internal.
Um, this was the last
that we were not gonna get an
opportunity to run the car again.
So they wanted an engine builder to come down from Detroit
to tear apart the engine, to reinstall a water pump.
So it, it had nothing to do with the part not being there.
It was because there was gonna be no leak check.
They wanted the right person no install.
They want an engine builder to do it.
And here's what's badass about this guy.
He got the call, um, and he was like, yep, no problem.
Got on his motorcycle. Nice.
With a little, with a little like I i you no borderline Ikea
like all in one toolkit.
I mean it wasn't that, but like
that same size and look right?
Yeah. Yeah. Rolls down to Indianapolis, drives his bike up
to the garage, hops off bike, boots on the car's,
already prepped and ready, does his thing 25 minutes,
doesn't take his bike boots off, gets back on.
Heads to Detroit. Thank you very much. No problem.
Like pretty, I mean as far
as like mechanics, that's pretty cool.
And like nerds go like, that's
badass Speaker 1: .
That is pretty, that's a long,
that's a lot of riding in one day.
That's about a four hour ride.
Unless he was just ripping it. Um, okay.
So that, that clears that up.
Thank you for clearing that up. 'cause I was a little bit
surprised by that information.
Um, yes.
So then the weenie 500 Oscar Meyer with a
objectively brilliant marketing move to have all six
of the Oscar Meyer Wiener mobiles racing
around the speedway.
Tim, you didn't watch it
because you were interviewing Creed.
Alex, I assume you had it on the garage
but weren't really paying too much attention.
Speaker 2: Um, well no. 'cause I was at a Java house activation.
Um, and also don't care.
Like, I'm sorry, I don't think it is.
I don't, I I I didn't like it. I thought it's dumb.
I thought it's a little bit lame to have.
I mean, that might not be a popular opinion,
but like, this is the Indianapolis 500
and we're watching stupid hot dog trucks go
around at 25 mile an hour in a stage race.
Like, what are we doing? Like, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: I objectively don't disagree.
I was very like, joke,
I was very shocked when like the idea first was pitched.
I'm like, that's really happening.
I remember T Bell and I looked at each other, we're like,
there's no way Roger knows this is going on ,
this is gonna get k this is gonna
get canned before it ever happens.
But dude, the buy-in from the audience, like
fans loved it. We
Speaker 2: Are very Do you, you think you could love it if you are
not under 10 or sober?
Speaker 1: The the second one makes it tough. I don't know.
I'm not sure. I think yes, I think you could based on really
Speaker 2: Like as a 30-year-old sober
person, you think you'd enjoy that?
Speaker 1: Me personally, Speaker 2: No. Any,
Speaker 1: Yes.
Interesting. And I'm only saying that be like the post
that we made on it was like the most, I got more responses
to a story about the weenie 500
before it happened than any other post I Do you think
Speaker 2: It's just 'cause it's the word weenie.
Speaker 1: I think it, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: It's it's the absurdity of it, right? I think
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's taking people talking Wiener mobiles, drag
Speaker 1: Taking, there was prop bets on like the length
of the anthem, which was the Oscar Byer Wiener
song, which was also very funny. Like that was, that was
Speaker 2: Funny.
Speaker 1: It was, it was done well
and like all the pi, all the pilots,
all the drivers had like, you know, like corny names
that were hot dog related
or whatever it was, it was done very well.
I was shocked to see it happen at the Indianapolis,
but if we were in Milwaukee Yeah, I get it.
That makes sense. That makes a lot of sense in Milwaukee.
I was floored that it happened at the Speedway.
Um, and obviously we had to call it,
and we had to call it using just an absolute boatload
of puns and, and terrible wiener jokes.
Uh, but it was, it was, there were people on their feet.
They were like, like hundreds
of people in full co hotdog costumes in the stands,
having a blast, having a great time.
It was, uh, look, if we can't have the freedom 100,
Speaker 2: No, don't say that.
don't put those in the same kind of case. I would
Speaker 1: Rather have the Freedom 100.
Just so we're clear. No,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't, okay, here's this is,
this is a good comparison.
Um, and maybe I'm just scrooge,
but like, I also think the Puppy Bowl
during the Super Bowl is stupid.
Yes. Do you agree with that? Yep.
Okay. All right. So we're the same.
Speaker 1: We're the same. But okay, here's, but here's the thing.
This is the thing. Let's say,
let's say you can't be over 30 and sober and still like it.
We want a younger audience.
Like if this got a bunch of 10, 12-year-old loved
to think it was awesome, then awesome.
Cool. Like Hazel loved it. That's a great example.
So, but again, I do think
Speaker 3: To the point where she left my show , her dad,
like us doing the live show, which I, I call it mine.
'cause you weren't, you and Alex weren't there,
but she left watching me, her dad on stage talking
to a massive band to go watch the Oscar Meyer Wieners race.
And honestly couldn't blame her. Like No,
Speaker 1: It was, no, I was, again, I, I'm not gonna lie,
I was skeptical, but then when I saw the fan reaction,
I'm like, okay, it's, it's something.
And if there's, if there's a day to do it, I mean,
carb Day is, that makes a lot of sense.
On Carb Day. I'm kinda, I I I definitely get that part,
but I think it'll be back next year.
I think it's gonna be a new thing.
You know, Nathan's has their 4th of July hotdog getting
concert or contest
and Oscar Meyers gonna have the, the Weenie 500.
So my biggest fear is that we've got, we've gotta come up
with a whole new raft of, of wiener jokes
for the broadcast we used.
Speaker 2: All I'll say, I will say, I will say, um,
I watched Relish the,
and it was, it was incredible.
Like how well you three did
because like, I, I don't know
how you even talk about such a thing,
like I was flabbergasted.
But, um, dude, good job.
Constant Professionals, uh, Tim, our producer is texting us,
uh, telling us what to do on the show, guys.
So sorry for the abrupt change.
Uh, he wants us hang to talk about, no, hang on. Okay, hang
Speaker 1: On.
Let's just get through one more thing on Carb Day. Sure.
Then we could talk about Tim's topic
and then we can, I don't know, end part one.
Um, 'cause Carb Day's not over
because it went to the Pits Stop competition.
Mm. And the Pits Stop Competition was
absolutely blitzed by Penske.
Um,
Speaker 2: Shocker.
Speaker 1: Which dude, it was shocking
how fast they broke their own record by like seven three.
Like Joseph broke his own record like three times. Yeah.
And, and it was like seven tenths faster than the record
from previous.
But my favorite part about , the favorite part about the
base up competition was you won your first round.
Right? And first of all, I love the piss up competition.
I'm just gonna throw that out there objectively.
It's an awesome event. I love that the crew gets
to be the spotlight.
It's about what they do.
'cause what they do is very difficult
and they put a lot of effort into it.
And Rocket, the, the tech guy that puts it all on, I mean,
it's $150,000 worth of prizes all in.
It's awesome. I really, really love it.
So Alex wins his first one and he gets outta the car
and he is walking back towards the
staging area and his helmet.
And, and like Alex walking through the paddock
with his helmet just cuts this very like,
specific figure, right?
You just, your body language when you're just kind
of walking, it's, it's, it's tough to explain.
But, so we've got, and I was like,
and you're just like, you, you could be walking
through a shopping mall.
Like you just, there's nothing to decipher what kind
of mood you're in or whatever.
So I was making this joke.
I was like, oh, that's, Alex is very happy with that run.
You can see it in his body language
and you're just walking like as normally
as you could possibly be walking.
Right? And then you lost when you lost,
I forget if it was the next one or the one
after when you eventually got eliminated,
you're doing the exact same walk back.
I'm like, oh see here.
Notice the subtle differences in his stride, .
And I was trying to get them to put, I was trying
to get them to put a side by side of the two
of the two shots of you walking
Speaker 4: Back to like circle the very,
very noticeable differences in your body language.
Mm-hmm . That were identical. Yeah.
But I couldn't get it in there, but I really wanted to.
It was just funny. Anyway,
Speaker 1: Uh, congrats to Team Penske.
They came first and second in. It was
Speaker 2: Competition.
It was pretty cool. I've, I've done the piss out competition
now this is, uh, I think my third time I did it once
with Andretti, once with McLaren, and now once with ECR.
And this is the first time I've ever not gotten
eliminated on the first round.
So there you go. I was pretty, pretty happy. Pretty cool.
Speaker 1: Made it through. Made it through. Uh, okay.
So Tim now wants us to pivot.
We're gonna skip ahead, um, excuse me,
to, uh, discuss the post-race penalties
that were assessed on Monday.
So Monday after the race, uh, three post race
tech penalties were announced. The 28
Speaker 2: Executions Speaker 1: Ex Yeah. ,
the 28 Marcus Erickson, 27 Cal Kirkwood
and the number 90 of Cal Ilot.
Uh, both the Andretti cars for the same infraction,
a different one on ilo got, uh, bounced from the race.
Essentially. They, they, I guess it's not a
disqualification, they got moved
to the three last positions.
So they finished, they were classified
as 31st, second, and third.
Um, that's like a, that's a,
I mean, as if Marcus's day wasn't already bad enough.
Well, Speaker 2: ,
Speaker 1: I mean like, Speaker 2: He thought it was bad.
Speaker 1: He thought it was bad. And boy did it get worse. Yeah.
Boy did it get worse? 'cause now not only are you looking
at, you know, oh my God,
what could I have done differently And just,
just missing out on the Indy 500.
Now you also lose like 40 points in a million bucks,
which is a pretty big kick in the nuts. And like he was,
Speaker 2: He was having a tough season.
So like he went from like getting himself towards the top
10, the championship, to now immediately being 20th.
Like it a big kick in the Yeah.
For Marcus, just from a points perspective,
forget the, the glory of it.
Forget the money like that,
that's painful in the championship for him. Do
Speaker 3: We know what the infraction was?
Speaker 2: Yes, Tim. We do.
Speaker 3: I don't, I tried to look it up yesterday
and I didn't see anything about it.
It just said there were modifications to the car.
Speaker 2: Listen, um, IndyCar is as, as much as it is a spec series,
um, there is a lot of, okay, when you've had a car
for this long, there is a lot
of optimization that is done to all
of the components, right?
In terms of you've, you've had the thing long enough
and you fiddle with things in our six month off season
and you find little ways to install stuff better
and you make body fit better.
And all of these little things that we, again,
we talked about last week
with the Bondo on the attenuator, if that's what we're calling it.
Like it wasn't, that by itself was nothing.
It's all these little things you're trying to do
to subtly improve the level of the, the build of the car.
And so the components, at least on the Andretti cars, um,
it was, it was purely a build quality situation.
Um, on the, on the 90 car, like the thing that happened, I,
you could argue that maybe it's a new team
and they don't maybe understand all of the, the ways
that the regulation works.
Or maybe I talked to Callum in the race
and he said that he had some contact
on that side of the front wing.
So maybe that was enough to, to put it outta spec.
Again, though, we are seeing a, a ccra not a crazy,
a very new trend in the series where these are not
intentional, um, malicious cheats if you will.
These are people working in the gray area of the rules.
These are people, you know,
maybe not fully understanding the rule book
because they've been doing things for this way
for the past decade and nothing's been said about it.
And so they just don't even realize that it's not legal.
It's been going on for so long.
So I wonder how much of that is existing. Um,
Speaker 3: So that, yeah, that was gonna be my follow up.
Is it, was it, is it like a new rash of this
or is it just getting caught now?
Is it just getting punished now?
Is it a little bit of all of the above or we don't know.
'cause we're not in race control.
Speaker 1: We don't know. We're not in race control .
Um, it is, it is interesting though, you know, with,
with everything that happened after qualifying
and the way that
the paddock reacted, which led
to what felt like an exaggerated response.
I can't help but feel, and I could be totally off base here,
but like Alex's point, like a lot of this stuff's been done
and there are gray areas that are, you know, look, it's,
it's, it's engineer's jobs
to like interpret things a certain way to try
to find a competitive advantage, right?
Like that's the, that's the game, right?
It's not intentionally trying to break a rule.
It's, well, I read it this way, so I think this makes sense.
Um, but is it, have we now set a new precedent, right?
Is is what happened in qualifying
in the subsequent response?
Now the level at which we're gonna be seeing tech
operate and the level at which penalties will be issued.
If that's the case, fine, as long
as it stays at this level now
until there's some announced change.
Because if you know
that being 0.01% outside the tolerance of the rules
leads to this level
and this severity of penalty,
you are gonna back off your adjustments
to leave a slightly bigger margin,
which is fine if you want every rule to be black
and white in or out.
Harsh penalties. Cool. Awesome.
Everyone's just gonna have to recalibrate their, their deal.
It just seemed like the timing of it seems a little strange.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I also wonder how much of this is, um,
is this, I don't wanna put words in in his mouth
because he hasn't said this,
but is this the type of IndyCar that Doug Bowles wants?
You know, Doug Bowles was, was brought into the head
of competition for IndyCar and, and all this sort of thing
and it, you know, he's worked in on the team side before
and all this sort of thing.
So did he, is he of the, is this a,
is this a mindset shift because it's a, a personnel shift?
Is, is he like this? Listen, this is the rule book.
It's not my job to make sure you follow the rule book.
You've had the rule book, your professional race teams,
your professional organizations follow the rule
book or you'll be penalized.
And, and that could just be the way that he wants to do it.
And, and also, like you said, James, that's totally fine
as long as that's the way it's done.
Um, but I, I certainly think
teams are probably now like reconsidering a lot of things,
especially going into Detroit, like holy shit, like yes,
this is legal, but it's barely legal.
Should we pull it off the car?
Like what do we do about this, this, and this?
Because like, these are, again, we talked about the points,
like that's a huge deal.
A hundred thousand dollars is not a small
fine. Right? Like that's,
Speaker 1: Especially when you're also losing the
price money Exactly.
Speaker 2: That you Speaker 1: Would've been earning. This is
Speaker 2: A big penalty.
So I think teams are now probably feeling
like they're walking on eggshells.
So I mean, it's, it is interesting.
It's a, it's a, it's a strange thing to have this sort of
seemingly monumental shift in the middle of the season.
I mean, I can't imagine
that nothing in the gray area was caught in the first five
races, but thi
Speaker 1: This is the part that I find weird, right?
Like if that was the deal from the get go, cool.
But to your point, it seems weird that it's only
after all this sort of came out in Yeah.
At the speedway that, but again, look, as long as it, yeah,
it's, it's a, it's a tough one.
But at the same time, I'll remember, I never will forget
Texas 2016, we come second in the race.
My, my floor was, uh, worn.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm aware. Speaker 1: Point six
Speaker 2: Giving everyone spark showers.
Speaker 1: Yep. Point. But it was 0.6 of a millimeter
to too far past the thing.
Right? So is it an advantage?
It's certainly not a disadvantage. Right? Excuse me.
This was at Texas and uh,
and we got docs 25 points and $25,000
or whatever a few years prior to that.
Justin Wilson won the race with Dale Coin
and he had full on
aerodynamic components bolted onto the car
that were not allowed to be on the car.
Correct? Correct. That add down force, right. Won the race.
He got a $5,000 fine. That was it.
So when our penalty got announced, I text Jay Fry,
who was in his first year at the series
and said, Jay, this is respectfully, this is bull
because a few years ago Justin won the race
with very obvious bolted on parts that he shouldn't have.
The, the race that I got, you know, uh, docked for,
we showed up, we had a 10 minute practice session
that we weren't allowed to adjust the car after.
'cause it was that August race. So the right
heights were a fraction off.
It was 0.6 of a mill. Mm-hmm. And I get a 25 point penalty.
And his response was, I wasn't running things back in 2012.
And I was like, that's a good argument.
That's kind of the only argument that I would've not like,
continued to lose my mind over.
So now it's, now it's a different person in charge.
And so maybe that's just the shift.
It, it, there's a lot of talk about all the tech stuff
and the conflict of interest that exists or whatever.
The other thing that we sort
of missed last week was the interview with Roger.
And in that interview he said something
that I think was music to the ears of a lot
of people in the paddock.
And don't get me wrong, there's still a lot of details
to work out here, but IndyCar is in the process of
creating a system whereby tech
and race control would be independently run
and not actually controlled by IndyCar.
So there are, there are different ways to go about that.
And I know that they are exploring a few different avenues.
I think there are pros and cons to the different ones
that I've kind of heard, uh, being kicked around.
But ultimately, you know, this is something that
IndyCar has been actually working on for months
and is not being done in reaction to
what happened at the Speedway.
I kind of wish they had shared more of that, you know,
what was happening behind the scenes
and maybe people wouldn't have lost their minds so much,
you know, over qualifying weekend.
But if we can get to a point whereby next year race control
and tech are independently operated
and can't be influenced in that respect,
that's a huge step forward for the series.
I think.
Speaker 2: I, I couldn't agree more. Um, I think that it's, it,
it shows that despite all
of the accusations or opinions or,
or anything like the priority of, of Penske Entertainment
and Roger is the health of this series,
and he does care deeply about it more than just, you know,
it's a, it's an avenue for the Indy 500
and he wants it to be a, um, championship that is,
uh, held in high regard and is some of the best teams
and drivers competing, you know, across North America.
And, and that that is,
that is very clear through all of this.
Like, he is not, this is not just a, a byproduct
of something that he purchased as a package deal.
So, um, it'll be interesting to see how
that, how that evolves.
Obviously none of that's gonna come in 2025,
but would be very cool.
And I think exciting for everyone, not only teams, drivers,
um, and the such,
but also fans, um, to know
that there would be an independent body
going forward in the future.
Speaker 1: Well, we look forward to learning more about that
as more becomes known.
Um, and we've kind of covered now everything up to the race,
so we're gonna stop it here for Tuesday.
Uh, thanks for listening guys,
but make sure you check in on Thursday
where we're gonna get into everything.
That was the 200 laps of the Indie 500.
This has been off track with Hinch
and Rossi Off Track is part
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