WEBVTT
1
00:00:00.185 --> 00:00:01.525
Hey, it's your friend Mel,
2
00:00:01.785 --> 00:00:04.365
and welcome to the Mel Robbins Podcast.
3
00:00:08.375 --> 00:00:10.845
Thank you so much for spending some time with me today.
4
00:00:10.845 --> 00:00:14.165
And I also wanna thank you for making the decision to listen
5
00:00:14.185 --> 00:00:16.245
to something that could help you improve your life.
6
00:00:16.325 --> 00:00:18.245
I think that's pretty cool. Now, if you're new,
7
00:00:18.405 --> 00:00:20.725
I wanna welcome you to the Mel Robbins podcast family.
8
00:00:21.025 --> 00:00:23.845
And by the way, thank you for making this one
9
00:00:23.845 --> 00:00:26.445
of the most popular podcasts in the entire world.
10
00:00:26.905 --> 00:00:27.965
My name's Mel Robbins.
11
00:00:27.965 --> 00:00:29.445
I'm a New York Times bestselling author,
12
00:00:29.465 --> 00:00:31.245
and one of the world's leading experts on
13
00:00:31.245 --> 00:00:32.645
confidence and motivation.
14
00:00:32.785 --> 00:00:35.085
And I'm on a mission to inspire
15
00:00:35.105 --> 00:00:37.365
and empower you with the tools that you need
16
00:00:37.365 --> 00:00:38.365
to create a better life.
17
00:00:38.985 --> 00:00:41.805
And you wanna know a very important component
18
00:00:42.145 --> 00:00:44.245
of creating a better life that's happiness.
19
00:00:44.465 --> 00:00:47.405
And I know that this is a topic that you love hearing about.
20
00:00:47.665 --> 00:00:49.245
In fact, every single time that you
21
00:00:49.245 --> 00:00:52.005
and I talk about it together, you want more.
22
00:00:52.385 --> 00:00:54.325
And today I'm gonna introduce you
23
00:00:54.325 --> 00:00:57.005
to somebody I deeply admire.
24
00:00:57.435 --> 00:01:00.445
He's one of the world's leading experts on happiness.
25
00:01:00.545 --> 00:01:02.885
His name Dr. Tall Ben Shahar.
26
00:01:03.305 --> 00:01:05.485
And that name, I bet you're like, wait a minute,
27
00:01:06.005 --> 00:01:07.165
I think I've heard that name before.
28
00:01:07.475 --> 00:01:09.085
Well, let me tell you where you may have heard it,
29
00:01:09.085 --> 00:01:11.645
because we did an episode just a little bit ago
30
00:01:11.705 --> 00:01:12.885
on the Science of Goals.
31
00:01:13.345 --> 00:01:15.605
And at the very end of that episode,
32
00:01:16.085 --> 00:01:19.325
I shared some powerful research from none other than Dr.
33
00:01:19.475 --> 00:01:20.525
Tall Ben Shahar.
34
00:01:20.965 --> 00:01:23.445
Remember that it was the research about the Olympic
35
00:01:23.875 --> 00:01:28.365
medalists and how they felt happier as they were training
36
00:01:28.985 --> 00:01:32.365
for the Olympics when they were pursuing that dream
37
00:01:32.985 --> 00:01:36.005
way happier when they were pursuing it than
38
00:01:36.005 --> 00:01:37.085
when they actually won the medal.
39
00:01:37.905 --> 00:01:40.365
And that part of the episode about goals
40
00:01:40.585 --> 00:01:42.885
and how goals are critical to happiness
41
00:01:42.885 --> 00:01:46.325
because your goals represent the pursuit of something
42
00:01:46.325 --> 00:01:47.365
that matters to you.
43
00:01:47.585 --> 00:01:49.405
You love that? So, you know what I did?
44
00:01:50.045 --> 00:01:53.965
I begged Tall to join us today. And he is here.
45
00:01:54.475 --> 00:01:56.365
He's here to unpack his research
46
00:01:56.425 --> 00:01:59.645
and share very specific takeaways with you.
47
00:02:08.155 --> 00:02:11.495
Now, T is very well known for being Harvard University's
48
00:02:12.005 --> 00:02:14.695
most popular teacher like ever.
49
00:02:15.155 --> 00:02:18.215
He taught two of the most popular courses in Harvard's
50
00:02:18.215 --> 00:02:20.095
history, positive psychology,
51
00:02:20.155 --> 00:02:21.735
and the Psychology of leadership.
52
00:02:21.755 --> 00:02:24.815
And today, you are getting key takeaways.
53
00:02:25.085 --> 00:02:27.855
He's also the New York Times bestselling author of eight.
54
00:02:28.195 --> 00:02:30.615
Yep. You heard it. Eight in incredible books,
55
00:02:30.795 --> 00:02:32.295
all about happiness, many
56
00:02:32.295 --> 00:02:34.535
of which are required reading in university
57
00:02:34.535 --> 00:02:35.735
courses around the world.
58
00:02:36.315 --> 00:02:38.255
And you know, what I love about Tal is
59
00:02:38.255 --> 00:02:40.295
that he has this amazing ability
60
00:02:40.915 --> 00:02:44.855
to bridge the academic aspect of happiness with the insights
61
00:02:44.855 --> 00:02:47.455
that you need to apply it to your life.
62
00:02:47.675 --> 00:02:51.495
And today, Tal is sharing the five elements of happiness.
63
00:02:51.515 --> 00:02:54.415
So let's jump in. Tal, welcome to the Mel Robs podcast.
64
00:02:54.625 --> 00:02:56.295
Thank you, Mel. So good to be here.
65
00:02:56.655 --> 00:02:58.455
I am so excited to talk to you.
66
00:02:59.445 --> 00:03:01.805
I wanna just start with the beginning of your story,
67
00:03:01.995 --> 00:03:03.685
because here you are one
68
00:03:03.685 --> 00:03:06.325
of the world's leading experts on the topic of happiness.
69
00:03:06.325 --> 00:03:08.005
Something we all wanna know more about.
70
00:03:08.745 --> 00:03:10.045
But when you got to college,
71
00:03:10.945 --> 00:03:13.325
you thought you were gonna study computer science.
72
00:03:13.905 --> 00:03:18.045
So what happened in your life that created this big pivot?
73
00:03:18.945 --> 00:03:21.085
So I became interested in happiness
74
00:03:21.085 --> 00:03:22.765
because of my own unhappiness.
75
00:03:23.185 --> 00:03:26.685
Oh. And um, you know, it started off, uh, even
76
00:03:26.705 --> 00:03:29.485
before, uh, college, I was, uh, a squash player.
77
00:03:29.625 --> 00:03:32.765
My dream as a, as a young boy was
78
00:03:32.765 --> 00:03:34.405
to be a professional athlete.
79
00:03:34.825 --> 00:03:37.005
Uh, initially I was supposed to be basketball,
80
00:03:37.025 --> 00:03:39.485
but I stopped growing at about the age of five six .
81
00:03:39.865 --> 00:03:43.885
So, uh, that didn't happen. Um, but squash was it for me.
82
00:03:44.425 --> 00:03:46.325
And I wasn't happy as a child,
83
00:03:46.325 --> 00:03:47.845
but I would always tell myself,
84
00:03:48.155 --> 00:03:49.365
when I become a professional,
85
00:03:49.365 --> 00:03:52.605
when I win the national championship, then I'll be happy.
86
00:03:53.825 --> 00:03:57.245
And, uh, for years I was quite miserable.
87
00:03:57.705 --> 00:03:59.485
And then I won the national championship
88
00:03:59.745 --> 00:04:01.685
and I was ecstatic, right?
89
00:04:02.065 --> 00:04:05.365
For about four hours. And then again, going back to
90
00:04:05.365 --> 00:04:08.805
where I was before the same stress and unhappiness.
91
00:04:09.225 --> 00:04:12.525
And I thought something was wrong here with my model.
92
00:04:12.905 --> 00:04:13.925
But then I said, oh no,
93
00:04:13.925 --> 00:04:16.645
it's when I become a world champion, then I'll be happy.
94
00:04:17.105 --> 00:04:18.445
And I continued towards that
95
00:04:18.445 --> 00:04:20.085
and I played professionally for a few years.
96
00:04:21.425 --> 00:04:24.845
And, uh, then I got injured and I went to college
97
00:04:25.505 --> 00:04:26.725
and I said, okay.
98
00:04:26.725 --> 00:04:31.125
So I didn't make it in, uh, in, in, in athletics,
99
00:04:31.305 --> 00:04:32.925
but I'll do it academically.
100
00:04:33.065 --> 00:04:37.005
And I went to Harvard and, uh, I was a top student there,
101
00:04:37.425 --> 00:04:38.445
and I was miserable.
102
00:04:39.545 --> 00:04:43.845
And my sophomore year, very cold, Boston morning, I went
103
00:04:43.845 --> 00:04:44.885
to my academic advisor
104
00:04:45.065 --> 00:04:47.405
and I told her that I'm switching majors.
105
00:04:47.405 --> 00:04:51.445
I was a computer science major. And she said, uh, what to?
106
00:04:51.445 --> 00:04:53.325
And I said, well, I'm leaving computer science
107
00:04:53.325 --> 00:04:55.605
and moving over to philosophy and psychology.
108
00:04:56.225 --> 00:04:59.285
And she said, why? And I said, because I have two questions.
109
00:05:00.135 --> 00:05:04.165
First, why aren't I happy? Second, how can I become happier?
110
00:05:04.985 --> 00:05:07.125
And it's with these two questions that I then went on
111
00:05:07.125 --> 00:05:09.325
to get my undergraduate degree, then went
112
00:05:09.325 --> 00:05:10.925
to graduate school in education
113
00:05:11.105 --> 00:05:13.845
and organizational behavior all the time, asking
114
00:05:13.945 --> 00:05:17.845
how can I help myself, individuals, couples, organizations,
115
00:05:17.845 --> 00:05:21.045
and ultimately nations increase their levels of happiness?
116
00:05:21.045 --> 00:05:22.645
And that was, uh, 30 years ago.
117
00:05:23.305 --> 00:05:24.685
Wow, that's quite a,
118
00:05:24.685 --> 00:05:26.525
you sound like a really intense dude. .
119
00:05:27.705 --> 00:05:30.285
No, seriously. Like you sound like somebody
120
00:05:30.285 --> 00:05:32.565
that was incredibly tightly wound,
121
00:05:33.265 --> 00:05:35.485
but that's not my experience of you right now.
122
00:05:35.585 --> 00:05:37.125
And so I only say that
123
00:05:37.125 --> 00:05:41.445
because to me, if somebody that is that driven
124
00:05:42.105 --> 00:05:43.165
and that competitive
125
00:05:43.165 --> 00:05:47.885
and that tightly wound can figure out, first of all
126
00:05:48.625 --> 00:05:52.365
why you're not happy, and also then figure out how
127
00:05:52.365 --> 00:05:53.685
to become a happier person
128
00:05:53.905 --> 00:05:57.925
and then translate that to everybody else, that's cool.
129
00:05:57.925 --> 00:06:00.245
Because that means the rest of us can probably do it too.
130
00:06:00.945 --> 00:06:03.085
Um, there's no question on my mind, again,
131
00:06:03.085 --> 00:06:05.765
after 30 years of, uh, work, internal work,
132
00:06:06.045 --> 00:06:08.885
external work research, that there is a lot
133
00:06:09.115 --> 00:06:10.565
that we can do to become happier.
134
00:06:11.305 --> 00:06:16.205
So if you go back to that sophomore year at Harvard
135
00:06:17.105 --> 00:06:19.325
and you're sitting there with your academic advisor
136
00:06:19.825 --> 00:06:22.525
and your advisor says, wait, what?
137
00:06:22.525 --> 00:06:24.045
You're gonna switch? Why would you switch?
138
00:06:24.145 --> 00:06:27.445
And you say, because I wanna figure out why I'm so unhappy.
139
00:06:28.195 --> 00:06:30.925
What did you learn about why you were so unhappy
140
00:06:30.995 --> 00:06:33.885
that we might be able to apply to our own lives? Yeah.
141
00:06:34.125 --> 00:06:35.805
So the first thing that I learned,
142
00:06:35.905 --> 00:06:39.165
or that was, uh, you know, obvious to me at that time was
143
00:06:39.165 --> 00:06:41.045
that success doesn't lead to happiness.
144
00:06:41.285 --> 00:06:42.525
Hmm. You know, we think there are certain
145
00:06:42.575 --> 00:06:43.925
boxes that we need to check.
146
00:06:44.025 --> 00:06:46.085
So for me, it was winning that championship,
147
00:06:46.145 --> 00:06:49.245
or later getting into Harvard, or becoming a top student
148
00:06:49.905 --> 00:06:52.205
or getting a good job and making a lot of money.
149
00:06:53.225 --> 00:06:54.885
All of us know that the best
150
00:06:54.885 --> 00:06:57.085
that these achievements can do is lead
151
00:06:57.085 --> 00:06:59.205
to temporary happiness, a spike.
152
00:06:59.535 --> 00:07:01.245
Right? But that high doesn't last.
153
00:07:01.345 --> 00:07:03.285
So that's the first thing that, that I learned.
154
00:07:03.345 --> 00:07:07.165
Now, the thing that amazed me is that while we all know that
155
00:07:07.915 --> 00:07:11.965
achievement, uh, attainment reaching a goal will not lead
156
00:07:11.965 --> 00:07:15.085
to lasting happiness, we continue to live as if it will.
157
00:07:15.385 --> 00:07:17.965
Not only that, that's also how we raise our children.
158
00:07:18.345 --> 00:07:20.365
That's also what we teach our students.
159
00:07:20.785 --> 00:07:22.445
We tell them, you may not be happy.
160
00:07:22.505 --> 00:07:24.285
Now you may be miserable, you may be stressed.
161
00:07:24.585 --> 00:07:26.445
But when you get to your top school,
162
00:07:26.445 --> 00:07:29.805
when you get your desired job, when you make that amount
163
00:07:29.805 --> 00:07:31.445
of money, then you'll be happy.
164
00:07:32.335 --> 00:07:36.925
Those successes will lead to that temporary high
165
00:07:37.105 --> 00:07:38.285
and nothing more.
166
00:07:38.985 --> 00:07:41.365
Why wouldn't it make you happy to achieve something
167
00:07:41.395 --> 00:07:42.765
that you've worked really hard to get?
168
00:07:44.115 --> 00:07:47.645
Because our system is built
169
00:07:48.385 --> 00:07:51.045
for the pursuit, not for the outcome.
170
00:07:51.665 --> 00:07:54.205
So once there is the outcome, there is sort
171
00:07:54.205 --> 00:07:55.485
of like a, okay, check.
172
00:07:55.595 --> 00:07:57.805
Been there, done that. Now I need something else.
173
00:07:58.105 --> 00:07:59.205
And that's part of our nature.
174
00:07:59.305 --> 00:08:01.085
And you know, you may say, you know, it,
175
00:08:01.085 --> 00:08:02.165
it's terrible, it's awful.
176
00:08:02.945 --> 00:08:05.805
Why is it that it just is, you know, why is the law
177
00:08:05.805 --> 00:08:07.045
of gravity, the law of gravity?
178
00:08:07.625 --> 00:08:09.685
The question is, how do we accept nature?
179
00:08:09.755 --> 00:08:11.565
Just like we accept the law of gravity? Hmm.
180
00:08:11.625 --> 00:08:13.565
How do we accept our human nature
181
00:08:14.065 --> 00:08:16.165
and then build our life based on that?
182
00:08:16.825 --> 00:08:21.275
So, if I am hearing you correctly, what you are saying
183
00:08:22.055 --> 00:08:23.555
is that one of the biggest things
184
00:08:23.555 --> 00:08:25.675
that somebody could take away from this conversation
185
00:08:25.675 --> 00:08:29.475
with you is that you are not hardwired
186
00:08:30.055 --> 00:08:33.075
to feel happy simply because you've achieved something.
187
00:08:33.305 --> 00:08:34.875
That happiness is tied
188
00:08:34.935 --> 00:08:37.875
to pursuing it, not the achieving of it.
189
00:08:38.335 --> 00:08:42.955
Yes. And if you do live by the, uh,
190
00:08:43.335 --> 00:08:46.115
belief that achievement will lead to happiness,
191
00:08:46.225 --> 00:08:48.435
that will cause you a great deal of unhappiness.
192
00:08:49.335 --> 00:08:50.515
Oh, that's a big one.
193
00:08:50.975 --> 00:08:53.915
In fact, that is one of the main causes for, uh,
194
00:08:53.915 --> 00:08:56.245
the levels of unhappiness that we see in our world.
195
00:08:56.635 --> 00:08:59.725
Because people are focusing on, uh, on the wrong thing.
196
00:08:59.725 --> 00:09:01.525
You know, they're, they're climbing up the wrong mountain.
197
00:09:02.665 --> 00:09:05.285
So can you break that down for us?
198
00:09:05.645 --> 00:09:08.925
'cause I wanna just stay on this point and highlight it,
199
00:09:08.925 --> 00:09:10.845
because if,
200
00:09:12.225 --> 00:09:15.805
if thinking about happiness wrong creates unhappiness,
201
00:09:16.315 --> 00:09:19.605
explain to us how
202
00:09:20.585 --> 00:09:22.485
you want us to think about happiness.
203
00:09:23.125 --> 00:09:26.285
Hmm. So happiness is important.
204
00:09:26.465 --> 00:09:29.885
It matters just like we are, uh, hardwired, uh, not
205
00:09:29.885 --> 00:09:31.845
to celebrate successes forever.
206
00:09:32.095 --> 00:09:35.045
We're also hardwired to pursue happiness. Okay?
207
00:09:35.045 --> 00:09:36.205
So it's not that I'm saying, okay,
208
00:09:36.205 --> 00:09:37.885
forget about happiness, happiness matters.
209
00:09:38.115 --> 00:09:40.405
Okay? However, there's also research,
210
00:09:40.425 --> 00:09:43.685
and this is research done, uh, quite recently
211
00:09:43.865 --> 00:09:46.765
by a professor Moss, MAUS, showing
212
00:09:46.875 --> 00:09:48.485
that if I wake up in the morning
213
00:09:48.505 --> 00:09:51.005
and say to myself, I want to be happy,
214
00:09:51.465 --> 00:09:53.165
or happiness is important for me,
215
00:09:53.305 --> 00:09:57.845
or it's a value for me, I will actually become less happy.
216
00:09:58.515 --> 00:10:00.205
What?
Wait
217
00:10:00.285 --> 00:10:01.365
A minute. Yeah. Really?
218
00:10:01.755 --> 00:10:04.285
That, that was exactly my reaction. That's a problem.
219
00:10:04.705 --> 00:10:06.525
You know, and, and you know, I read about this, you know,
220
00:10:06.525 --> 00:10:07.765
five years ago, and I said,
221
00:10:07.765 --> 00:10:09.845
but you know, that's what I'm dedicating my life to.
222
00:10:09.845 --> 00:10:11.805
Of course, happiness is important for me.
223
00:10:12.145 --> 00:10:15.405
And yet what the research clearly shows is that
224
00:10:15.955 --> 00:10:17.125
this will make you less happy.
225
00:10:17.465 --> 00:10:22.045
So does this mean we should, um, say to ourselves, you know,
226
00:10:22.125 --> 00:10:24.005
I don't wanna be happy, wink wink.
227
00:10:24.125 --> 00:10:25.525
I actually do. You know,
228
00:10:25.525 --> 00:10:28.325
self-deception is certainly not the path to happiness.
229
00:10:28.505 --> 00:10:29.965
So what do we do about it?
230
00:10:30.865 --> 00:10:32.965
Let me use an analogy that was very helpful
231
00:10:33.145 --> 00:10:34.565
for me in thinking about happiness.
232
00:10:34.565 --> 00:10:37.685
Imagine you go outside, it's a, it's a beautiful sunny day.
233
00:10:37.685 --> 00:10:39.805
Mm-Hmm. . And you wanna enjoy the sun.
234
00:10:39.825 --> 00:10:43.285
So you look up at the sun directly, what happens?
235
00:10:43.505 --> 00:10:47.245
You hurt yourself, it burns. It hurts. You tear up.
236
00:10:47.825 --> 00:10:49.885
So looking at the sun directly hurts.
237
00:10:50.075 --> 00:10:53.165
However, what if you take a prism
238
00:10:53.785 --> 00:10:55.725
and you break the sunlight,
239
00:10:56.465 --> 00:10:59.325
and then you look at what has just been broken.
240
00:10:59.985 --> 00:11:01.765
In other words, the colors of the rainbow.
241
00:11:02.115 --> 00:11:05.165
Then you can look at the, the sunlight and enjoy it.
242
00:11:05.385 --> 00:11:07.165
But you're looking at it indirectly.
243
00:11:07.555 --> 00:11:08.965
It's the same with happiness.
244
00:11:09.685 --> 00:11:11.645
Pursuing it directly and saying, I wanna be happy.
245
00:11:11.675 --> 00:11:14.365
Happiness is important for me, that will make us unhappy.
246
00:11:14.545 --> 00:11:18.765
But if I break down happiness into its metaphorical colors
247
00:11:18.865 --> 00:11:22.565
of the rainbow, and then pursue it indirectly,
248
00:11:23.455 --> 00:11:26.105
that is when I can actually become happier.
249
00:11:27.215 --> 00:11:29.585
Okay. So I'm gonna see if I can understand this,
250
00:11:29.585 --> 00:11:31.985
because you are saying, I totally get the part
251
00:11:31.985 --> 00:11:34.185
that if you focus at something maniacally, right,
252
00:11:34.485 --> 00:11:35.745
you're gonna get the sun spots.
253
00:11:35.845 --> 00:11:38.345
You cannot hold that intent, gaze at something,
254
00:11:38.375 --> 00:11:39.505
even if you want to.
255
00:11:40.245 --> 00:11:42.505
But when the sunlight hits a prism
256
00:11:42.525 --> 00:11:45.945
and it casts a rainbow, you are saying that the rainbow
257
00:11:46.965 --> 00:11:50.345
is the way that you indirectly enjoy the sun.
258
00:11:50.375 --> 00:11:52.105
Yeah. I have so many questions.
259
00:11:52.655 --> 00:11:55.885
What, what is the definition of happiness? Yeah.
260
00:11:55.885 --> 00:11:58.525
So there are many definitions to happiness.
261
00:11:58.525 --> 00:12:00.605
In fact, as many definitions as there are people
262
00:12:00.625 --> 00:12:03.005
around the world, the one that I work with
263
00:12:03.075 --> 00:12:06.645
that I find most helpful actually draws on the work
264
00:12:06.645 --> 00:12:10.405
of Helen Keller, who says that for her happiness is
265
00:12:11.035 --> 00:12:13.285
wholeness, WH wholeness.
266
00:12:13.785 --> 00:12:18.445
So I define happiness as whole person wellbeing.
267
00:12:19.455 --> 00:12:23.885
There are five elements to happiness.
268
00:12:24.015 --> 00:12:25.565
There may be more, but five main
269
00:12:25.565 --> 00:12:26.845
elements to happiness, okay?
270
00:12:26.895 --> 00:12:30.085
Which, uh, we call the spire. The aspire.
271
00:12:31.085 --> 00:12:35.445
S-P-I-R-E-S stands for spiritual wellbeing. Okay?
272
00:12:35.845 --> 00:12:38.725
Spiritual wellbeing is about, uh, of course we can attain it
273
00:12:38.725 --> 00:12:41.525
through religion, but we can also find it through, uh,
274
00:12:41.525 --> 00:12:43.125
doing something that is meaningful to us.
275
00:12:43.335 --> 00:12:46.605
Purposeful, uh, by being mindful, by being present.
276
00:12:46.825 --> 00:12:50.725
We experience the, the spiritual, that's one
277
00:12:50.725 --> 00:12:51.965
of the colors of the rainbow.
278
00:12:52.225 --> 00:12:53.325
So if I wake up in the morning
279
00:12:53.325 --> 00:12:55.485
and say, I want to be happy, I'll be less happy.
280
00:12:55.545 --> 00:12:56.685
But if I wake up in the morning
281
00:12:56.685 --> 00:12:59.725
and say, I wanna find something which is more meaningful
282
00:12:59.945 --> 00:13:02.925
to do, or I'm gonna meditate for 10 minutes.
283
00:13:03.025 --> 00:13:07.525
Now, that is an indirect way of pursuing happiness.
284
00:13:07.745 --> 00:13:10.485
That's one of the colors. So that's the S of spire.
285
00:13:10.625 --> 00:13:13.725
The P of Spire, that's physical wellbeing.
286
00:13:14.525 --> 00:13:16.285
Physical wellbeing is about nutrition.
287
00:13:16.555 --> 00:13:18.885
It's about, um, about rest
288
00:13:18.985 --> 00:13:23.045
and recovery, sleep, it's about, uh, uh, touch.
289
00:13:23.195 --> 00:13:26.935
It's about what we eat. That of course, matters.
290
00:13:27.115 --> 00:13:31.215
So if I start to exercise regularly, that's an indirect way
291
00:13:31.215 --> 00:13:32.295
of pursuing happiness.
292
00:13:32.695 --> 00:13:35.175
Hmm. If I eat more healthfully the same,
293
00:13:36.125 --> 00:13:38.295
then we have the I of Spire.
294
00:13:38.935 --> 00:13:41.095
I stands for intellectual wellbeing.
295
00:13:41.595 --> 00:13:43.575
That's about, uh, curiosity,
296
00:13:43.665 --> 00:13:47.815
about asking questions about constantly learning about deep
297
00:13:47.815 --> 00:13:51.855
diving, whether it's into a text or a work of art or nature.
298
00:13:52.715 --> 00:13:55.095
And these are, again, all indirect ways
299
00:13:55.555 --> 00:13:57.055
of pursuing happiness.
300
00:13:57.675 --> 00:14:01.415
The fourth color of the rainbow, the R of Spire,
301
00:14:01.415 --> 00:14:04.815
relational wellbeing, number one, predictor of happiness.
302
00:14:04.815 --> 00:14:06.535
Quality time we spend with people we care
303
00:14:06.535 --> 00:14:07.775
about and who care about us.
304
00:14:08.755 --> 00:14:12.215
So if I spend more time with my loved ones,
305
00:14:12.585 --> 00:14:14.495
indirectly pursuing happiness.
306
00:14:14.715 --> 00:14:17.575
And finally, the E of Spire, emotional wellbeing.
307
00:14:17.965 --> 00:14:20.135
Emotional wellbeing is first
308
00:14:20.135 --> 00:14:23.975
of all about giving ourselves the permission to be human.
309
00:14:24.475 --> 00:14:26.735
In other words, allowing the, um,
310
00:14:27.405 --> 00:14:30.975
embracing painful emotions that are natural parts
311
00:14:31.355 --> 00:14:35.255
of any life, even a happy life, sadness, anger, frustration,
312
00:14:35.975 --> 00:14:37.975
allowing these emotions to freely flow through us,
313
00:14:38.485 --> 00:14:41.295
paradoxically actually leads to more happiness.
314
00:14:42.915 --> 00:14:47.135
So these five elements of happiness, spiritual, physical,
315
00:14:47.135 --> 00:14:48.255
intellectual, relational,
316
00:14:48.315 --> 00:14:51.325
and emotional wellbeing are the metaphorical
317
00:14:51.325 --> 00:14:52.365
colors of the rainbow.
318
00:14:52.585 --> 00:14:53.765
And when we pursue them,
319
00:14:54.575 --> 00:14:57.085
we're actually pursuing happiness
320
00:14:57.215 --> 00:14:58.845
indirectly, and becoming happier.
321
00:15:00.085 --> 00:15:02.105
As you were describing all five elements,
322
00:15:02.285 --> 00:15:04.385
you did keep saying the word wellbeing,
323
00:15:05.325 --> 00:15:07.265
and it makes a lot of sense, right?
324
00:15:08.135 --> 00:15:12.385
That all of these components go into
325
00:15:13.105 --> 00:15:17.945
a, a, a, a whole look at how to elevate
326
00:15:18.045 --> 00:15:20.585
or experience happiness in your life.
327
00:15:22.135 --> 00:15:23.425
What do I gotta achieve next
328
00:15:23.445 --> 00:15:24.825
to feel that thing that I wanna feel?
329
00:15:25.525 --> 00:15:29.665
How would you begin to explain to somebody like that
330
00:15:30.765 --> 00:15:34.135
what this actually means and how you pursue it?
331
00:15:34.275 --> 00:15:36.455
If you don't even know what happiness kind of feels like?
332
00:15:36.455 --> 00:15:37.775
You got the wrong definition,
333
00:15:38.345 --> 00:15:39.345
Right?
334
00:15:39.395 --> 00:15:41.675
You know, so the first thing
335
00:15:41.675 --> 00:15:43.955
that I would do is I would take a step back
336
00:15:44.335 --> 00:15:47.315
and, um, explore models of happiness.
337
00:15:47.315 --> 00:15:49.515
Because if you think about it, in our culture today,
338
00:15:49.575 --> 00:15:52.835
we have two major models of happiness.
339
00:15:53.135 --> 00:15:55.715
The one model of happiness, which is mostly associated
340
00:15:55.715 --> 00:15:58.715
with the West, is you become happier
341
00:15:59.175 --> 00:16:00.315
by achieving your goals.
342
00:16:00.485 --> 00:16:02.315
Right? That's the most important thing you get to the peak
343
00:16:02.315 --> 00:16:03.555
of the mountain, that you'll be happy.
344
00:16:03.655 --> 00:16:07.475
Yes. That's a model that I tried and that many people tried.
345
00:16:07.615 --> 00:16:08.835
It doesn't really work.
346
00:16:09.455 --> 00:16:13.555
The other model that people veer towards is, uh, okay,
347
00:16:13.615 --> 00:16:15.715
so the future doesn't get us happiness.
348
00:16:16.005 --> 00:16:20.215
Let's focus on the now, let's just be in the present moment.
349
00:16:20.675 --> 00:16:23.015
Yes. And that's an alternative model,
350
00:16:23.015 --> 00:16:26.215
which is mostly associated with the east Mm-Hmm, , you know,
351
00:16:26.225 --> 00:16:28.975
meditation, mindfulness, being the here and now.
352
00:16:30.665 --> 00:16:32.895
There are problems with both models.
353
00:16:33.195 --> 00:16:35.935
We know what the problem is with the future oriented model,
354
00:16:35.935 --> 00:16:38.095
but there's also a problem with the present oriented model.
355
00:16:38.095 --> 00:16:42.095
And that is human nature, again, because we do want goals.
356
00:16:42.355 --> 00:16:45.535
We are ambitious, we do want to achieve things.
357
00:16:45.555 --> 00:16:49.615
And the question is, can these two models be reconciled?
358
00:16:49.835 --> 00:16:52.975
In other words, can you draw the best of both worlds?
359
00:16:53.315 --> 00:16:55.775
And the answer is yes, goals matter.
360
00:16:55.805 --> 00:16:58.215
They're important, whether it is to, you know,
361
00:16:58.215 --> 00:17:00.095
to win a championship in sports,
362
00:17:00.095 --> 00:17:01.615
or whether it is to get into a college,
363
00:17:01.635 --> 00:17:04.215
or whether it is to make X amount of money.
364
00:17:04.215 --> 00:17:06.815
Mm-hmm, goals matter. We care about them.
365
00:17:07.195 --> 00:17:09.295
Why do they matter in the context of happiness?
366
00:17:09.365 --> 00:17:12.095
Well, they matter because again, it's part of our nature.
367
00:17:12.235 --> 00:17:13.935
We want to improve, we want to get better.
368
00:17:13.935 --> 00:17:14.935
And that's a beautiful
369
00:17:14.935 --> 00:17:16.495
and wonderful part of our nature,
370
00:17:16.495 --> 00:17:17.935
which we ought to celebrate.
371
00:17:19.335 --> 00:17:23.475
Not, uh, not not attack. So that's a good thing. Okay?
372
00:17:23.475 --> 00:17:26.395
However, what we also know is that the achievement
373
00:17:26.495 --> 00:17:29.115
of these goals will not make us happy.
374
00:17:30.505 --> 00:17:31.515
What will make us happy?
375
00:17:31.655 --> 00:17:32.995
Not the achievement of these goals,
376
00:17:33.255 --> 00:17:35.715
but the existence of these goals.
377
00:17:35.855 --> 00:17:38.115
Mm-Hmm. Whether or not I achieve them is actually less
378
00:17:38.115 --> 00:17:40.515
important to have them matters.
379
00:17:41.005 --> 00:17:42.675
Think about it. You go on a road trip
380
00:17:43.335 --> 00:17:45.115
and you have no idea where you are going.
381
00:17:45.775 --> 00:17:47.675
So you know, you turn left or right.
382
00:17:47.675 --> 00:17:50.005
You look over my falling over a a, a cliff,
383
00:17:50.235 --> 00:17:51.325
what should I do today?
384
00:17:51.505 --> 00:17:54.005
Is this the right thing? You know, it's, it's you,
385
00:17:54.025 --> 00:17:56.005
you are meandering, you are not certain,
386
00:17:56.625 --> 00:17:57.685
you're not happy then.
387
00:17:57.825 --> 00:18:00.365
Mm. But if you know I'm going to the top of
388
00:18:00.365 --> 00:18:03.085
that mountain over there, then you can go there
389
00:18:03.085 --> 00:18:06.965
with full energy, with motivation, especially if
390
00:18:07.205 --> 00:18:09.805
that mountaintop is meaningful to you,
391
00:18:09.895 --> 00:18:13.045
which is an important component of a goal, of course.
392
00:18:13.865 --> 00:18:15.485
So you have a meaning goal, full goal,
393
00:18:15.625 --> 00:18:16.885
you're going towards it.
394
00:18:17.385 --> 00:18:19.005
And what does having that goal do?
395
00:18:19.395 --> 00:18:22.925
What it does for you is it liberates you
396
00:18:23.185 --> 00:18:25.765
to enjoy the here and now. That
397
00:18:25.765 --> 00:18:26.885
Makes a lot of sense. And
398
00:18:27.125 --> 00:18:29.285
Actually, and the two of the two of them are reconciled
399
00:18:29.755 --> 00:18:32.765
Because it gives your day to day life a sense
400
00:18:32.765 --> 00:18:33.885
of purpose and direction.
401
00:18:34.225 --> 00:18:37.725
And I can see how if you wake up in the morning
402
00:18:38.305 --> 00:18:40.085
and you're either just going through the motions,
403
00:18:40.305 --> 00:18:41.805
or you wake up in the morning
404
00:18:41.945 --> 00:18:46.385
and you're not quite sure what to do with your time
405
00:18:46.385 --> 00:18:50.865
because you're not quite sure what you want, how that lack
406
00:18:50.865 --> 00:18:54.345
of purpose then starts to
407
00:18:55.185 --> 00:18:56.865
probably make you think too much
408
00:18:57.365 --> 00:18:59.145
and probably make you start
409
00:18:59.205 --> 00:19:01.945
to dwell on questions like, am I happy?
410
00:19:02.045 --> 00:19:04.945
Am I not happy? What should I be doing? I don't know.
411
00:19:05.005 --> 00:19:06.265
Am I lost? Am I stuck?
412
00:19:06.285 --> 00:19:08.785
Am I, I mean, I've certainly been in those areas of my life.
413
00:19:08.885 --> 00:19:11.305
And so you're absolutely right about that.
414
00:19:11.425 --> 00:19:12.945
I see what you're saying. Yeah.
415
00:19:13.685 --> 00:19:15.465
And then what that means is that
416
00:19:15.465 --> 00:19:17.905
that future goal is not an end,
417
00:19:18.085 --> 00:19:23.025
but rather a means, it's means towards liberating you
418
00:19:23.205 --> 00:19:24.465
to enjoy the here and now.
419
00:19:25.225 --> 00:19:26.785
Tal, thank you for explaining that.
420
00:19:26.925 --> 00:19:30.305
And this is a great moment to remind you
421
00:19:30.305 --> 00:19:32.545
as you're listening, that the episode
422
00:19:32.545 --> 00:19:35.905
that we did on the science of setting deeply personal goals,
423
00:19:36.355 --> 00:19:37.905
we're gonna link to that in the resources.
424
00:19:38.125 --> 00:19:41.505
It also is the episode that features some
425
00:19:41.505 --> 00:19:44.465
of t's research on goal setting that's there for you.
426
00:19:44.745 --> 00:19:47.065
I wanna hear a quick word from our sponsors
427
00:19:47.065 --> 00:19:48.865
who are bringing us this amazing,
428
00:19:49.215 --> 00:19:52.345
amazing information about happiness at zero cost.
429
00:19:52.805 --> 00:19:55.185
Do not go anywhere. You're gonna be happy you stuck around.
430
00:19:55.375 --> 00:19:59.825
Because when we come back, I'm going to ask Tal to walk you
431
00:19:59.825 --> 00:20:04.145
and I step by step through all five elements of happiness,
432
00:20:04.145 --> 00:20:06.185
and give us a specific example
433
00:20:06.325 --> 00:20:09.625
of a simple action you could take in each area
434
00:20:09.815 --> 00:20:12.265
that will make you feel happier today.
435
00:20:12.575 --> 00:20:13.105
Stay with me.
436
00:20:21.235 --> 00:20:23.205
Welcome back. It's your friend Mel,
437
00:20:23.425 --> 00:20:26.565
and boy, are you in for a treat today.
438
00:20:26.825 --> 00:20:30.485
I'm so excited. We are here with Dr. Tall Ben Shahar.
439
00:20:31.065 --> 00:20:35.485
He is the most popular professor in history at Harvard,
440
00:20:35.635 --> 00:20:39.405
teaches positive psychology, the psychology of leadership,
441
00:20:39.785 --> 00:20:42.805
and we're going through 30 years
442
00:20:42.945 --> 00:20:45.165
of his work on happiness.
443
00:20:45.165 --> 00:20:47.565
And more importantly, how you can be a happier you.
444
00:20:47.945 --> 00:20:49.925
Now, we've already covered two important things.
445
00:20:50.105 --> 00:20:52.525
Let me just recap to make sure that you got this,
446
00:20:53.155 --> 00:20:56.045
that happiness is about wholeness.
447
00:20:56.425 --> 00:20:59.765
And there are five elements to you being happier, spiritual,
448
00:21:00.125 --> 00:21:02.005
physical, your intellectual wellness,
449
00:21:02.315 --> 00:21:04.205
relationships, and emotional.
450
00:21:04.705 --> 00:21:07.285
And one of the things that I wanted to ask you, Tal,
451
00:21:07.865 --> 00:21:10.885
is you're talking a lot about the things we can do
452
00:21:11.825 --> 00:21:14.365
to improve those areas of our life,
453
00:21:14.375 --> 00:21:16.005
which impacts our happiness.
454
00:21:16.345 --> 00:21:19.795
For somebody listening that maybe
455
00:21:21.075 --> 00:21:22.895
has not grown up around happy people
456
00:21:24.095 --> 00:21:25.095
Hmm.
457
00:21:25.505 --> 00:21:29.555
Doesn't really know if happiness is possible
458
00:21:29.655 --> 00:21:31.835
or even kind of what it feels like,
459
00:21:32.985 --> 00:21:35.015
where do you even begin if you don't know
460
00:21:35.015 --> 00:21:37.095
what happiness looks like or feels like,
461
00:21:37.235 --> 00:21:38.735
or how to achieve it?
462
00:21:39.045 --> 00:21:41.975
Yeah, I always, um, tell my students
463
00:21:41.975 --> 00:21:45.295
that the best self-help books are biographies.
464
00:21:46.115 --> 00:21:48.735
Why? Because biographies give us, you know, the, the,
465
00:21:48.835 --> 00:21:52.335
the deep, uh, understanding of what a, a happy life,
466
00:21:52.975 --> 00:21:55.135
miserable or a successful life looks like.
467
00:21:56.315 --> 00:21:59.735
And, uh, one of my favorite biographies is Ma ma gandhi's.
468
00:21:59.895 --> 00:22:04.215
Hmm. The subtitle of his, uh, autobiography is
469
00:22:04.755 --> 00:22:06.615
My Experiments with Truth.
470
00:22:08.005 --> 00:22:11.215
It's not my finding truth, it's not the ultimate truth,
471
00:22:11.365 --> 00:22:13.735
it's my experiments with truth.
472
00:22:14.475 --> 00:22:17.295
And that for me is a guiding mantra,
473
00:22:18.515 --> 00:22:20.535
and I think it ought to be for many of us
474
00:22:21.045 --> 00:22:23.335
because it is very much about experimentation.
475
00:22:23.765 --> 00:22:25.175
It's about trying things out.
476
00:22:25.175 --> 00:22:29.135
It's about trying different ways of being, living and doing,
477
00:22:29.795 --> 00:22:31.095
and through experimentation.
478
00:22:31.095 --> 00:22:33.575
And if we're not afraid of experimenting, of trying,
479
00:22:33.575 --> 00:22:36.855
if we're not afraid of falling down, then we'll get better,
480
00:22:37.205 --> 00:22:39.735
then we'll grow, then we will actually become happier
481
00:22:40.485 --> 00:22:42.175
with an emphasis on happier.
482
00:22:42.765 --> 00:22:43.815
What do I mean by that?
483
00:22:44.515 --> 00:22:46.175
See, many people ask me, okay, Todd,
484
00:22:46.175 --> 00:22:48.975
you've been in this business for 30 years, 30 years ago,
485
00:22:48.975 --> 00:22:50.215
you embarked on this journey.
486
00:22:50.635 --> 00:22:52.375
Are you finally happy today?
487
00:22:52.795 --> 00:22:57.535
Are you?
Good question. My answer is, I don't know what
488
00:22:57.805 --> 00:22:59.215
That, that is not acceptable.
489
00:22:59.275 --> 00:23:01.335
Tol I'm sorry, you're supposed to be here
490
00:23:01.595 --> 00:23:02.775
and tell us to be happy.
491
00:23:03.115 --> 00:23:05.015
How to be happy. You dunno. If you're happy,
492
00:23:05.435 --> 00:23:06.735
I'm here to tell you how to be happier.
493
00:23:07.085 --> 00:23:10.535
Okay? Not happy because I don't know
494
00:23:10.535 --> 00:23:12.295
what being happy is
495
00:23:12.555 --> 00:23:13.775
or means in the sense
496
00:23:13.775 --> 00:23:16.375
that I don't think there is a binary zero one.
497
00:23:16.375 --> 00:23:18.055
Okay? So yesterday I was unhappy.
498
00:23:18.505 --> 00:23:22.735
Today I am, I'm happy rather than a binary zero one,
499
00:23:23.755 --> 00:23:25.015
it is a continuum.
500
00:23:25.515 --> 00:23:26.815
So I can certainly tell you
501
00:23:26.815 --> 00:23:29.495
that I'm a lot happier today than I was 30 years ago.
502
00:23:29.735 --> 00:23:32.255
Hmm. But I hope that five years from now I'll be
503
00:23:32.255 --> 00:23:33.295
happier than I am today.
504
00:23:34.155 --> 00:23:37.055
How will you know?
How do I know
505
00:23:37.085 --> 00:23:38.775
that I will be happier?
506
00:23:39.075 --> 00:23:42.975
Or how do I know how to measure that? I'm both, both.
507
00:23:43.255 --> 00:23:45.325
I know there's a kind of a basic question,
508
00:23:46.105 --> 00:23:48.205
but happiness alludes so many people.
509
00:23:48.515 --> 00:23:51.685
Yeah. There are so many people
510
00:23:51.795 --> 00:23:55.765
that write in about feeling stuck or a lack of purpose,
511
00:23:56.145 --> 00:23:59.325
or devastated with grief that
512
00:24:01.125 --> 00:24:04.285
I know when you look in the rear view mirror, you can say,
513
00:24:04.945 --> 00:24:08.285
oh, I'm happier than I was 10 years ago.
514
00:24:08.565 --> 00:24:12.445
I feel in your definition that you've presented to us
515
00:24:12.515 --> 00:24:16.285
that you really like a sense
516
00:24:16.285 --> 00:24:17.525
of wholeness, right?
517
00:24:18.065 --> 00:24:19.365
Uh, uh, an access to it.
518
00:24:19.465 --> 00:24:22.165
But for somebody that really feels like, whether it's
519
00:24:22.165 --> 00:24:24.725
because of depression or they're just been miserable their
520
00:24:24.725 --> 00:24:26.845
whole life or their life has been really hard.
521
00:24:27.075 --> 00:24:28.075
Yeah.
522
00:24:28.425 --> 00:24:31.685
So I would go for, uh, you know, small changes, okay?
523
00:24:31.865 --> 00:24:35.605
The kaizen change that the Japanese talk about, which is,
524
00:24:36.345 --> 00:24:38.925
how can I become 1% happier?
525
00:24:39.305 --> 00:24:40.365
Not how can I become happy?
526
00:24:41.065 --> 00:24:44.285
Not how can I, you know, find, you know, the, uh, the,
527
00:24:44.285 --> 00:24:45.725
um, the answer.
528
00:24:46.155 --> 00:24:47.765
Just how can I become 1% happier?
529
00:24:48.225 --> 00:24:50.485
And then if you look at, ask this question
530
00:24:50.625 --> 00:24:52.325
and look at the five spire elements,
531
00:24:52.385 --> 00:24:54.365
and you can look at all five, and you can look at one
532
00:24:54.365 --> 00:24:57.285
of them, how can I introduce a small change, experiment
533
00:24:57.285 --> 00:25:00.565
with a small truth, and then see how that works?
534
00:25:01.465 --> 00:25:03.725
And then if it does, great to do more
535
00:25:03.725 --> 00:25:05.645
of it if it doesn't try something else.
536
00:25:06.545 --> 00:25:08.645
But the key is to continue moving
537
00:25:08.645 --> 00:25:11.925
because as we know, one of the,
538
00:25:12.345 --> 00:25:15.845
the major characteristics of depression is, uh,
539
00:25:16.405 --> 00:25:18.285
helplessness, which means doing nothing.
540
00:25:18.385 --> 00:25:21.765
Mm-Hmm. . So counter that with doing something.
541
00:25:21.785 --> 00:25:24.325
And again, that's something doesn't have to be major.
542
00:25:24.785 --> 00:25:26.205
You know, one of the things that I'm, um,
543
00:25:26.435 --> 00:25:28.325
working on a lot now is
544
00:25:28.385 --> 00:25:30.685
how small changes can make a big difference.
545
00:25:30.795 --> 00:25:33.365
Yeah. When consistently applied. Yes.
546
00:25:33.365 --> 00:25:35.325
And I know that you are, uh, you know, you know,
547
00:25:35.325 --> 00:25:37.885
doing work in that area as well when you talk about,
548
00:25:37.885 --> 00:25:40.685
you know, take that one minute to, uh, to breathe.
549
00:25:41.305 --> 00:25:43.165
And those small changes make a big difference.
550
00:25:43.165 --> 00:25:45.565
And, you know, I've, I've coined, uh, a term,
551
00:25:46.265 --> 00:25:49.405
so I dunno if you're familiar with, um, the term MVP,
552
00:25:49.545 --> 00:25:52.205
not from sports, from, um, from, uh,
553
00:25:52.565 --> 00:25:55.005
business MVP minimum viable product.
554
00:25:55.145 --> 00:25:57.525
Mm-Hmm. . Now this is something a company, you know,
555
00:25:57.525 --> 00:26:00.765
brings out as sort of a beta version, a test case.
556
00:26:01.985 --> 00:26:03.725
And, um, you know, it's not perfect.
557
00:26:04.075 --> 00:26:07.565
It's not ready, it's not ideal, but it's good enough.
558
00:26:08.425 --> 00:26:11.565
So based on this MVP minimum viable product idea,
559
00:26:12.165 --> 00:26:16.565
I coined the term MVI, minimum viable intervention.
560
00:26:17.445 --> 00:26:19.325
Hmm. Minimum viable intervention.
561
00:26:19.375 --> 00:26:21.925
These are the small changes that you can introduce
562
00:26:22.635 --> 00:26:25.205
that actually make a difference over time.
563
00:26:25.305 --> 00:26:28.325
And this is what I would urge the mvi is what I would urge
564
00:26:28.755 --> 00:26:31.525
that someone who's feeling stuck or down,
565
00:26:31.985 --> 00:26:34.765
or someone who just lacks motivation right?
566
00:26:34.895 --> 00:26:37.605
Introduces in their lives, okay, what are these mvi,
567
00:26:38.225 --> 00:26:39.845
for example, um, you know what,
568
00:26:40.005 --> 00:26:41.645
actually let me go over the spire elements and,
569
00:26:41.645 --> 00:26:43.365
and provide an MVI for each one.
570
00:26:43.765 --> 00:26:44.925
I love you. Love that.
Yes.
571
00:26:44.955 --> 00:26:47.325
Alright, so spiritual wellbeing.
572
00:26:48.005 --> 00:26:51.405
Spiritual wellbeing is about purpose and presence. Okay?
573
00:26:51.655 --> 00:26:56.165
Let's say we for, uh, one minute breathe deeply
574
00:26:56.685 --> 00:26:58.965
focusing on the air, going in and out.
575
00:26:59.185 --> 00:27:00.565
That's meditation. You know,
576
00:27:00.565 --> 00:27:02.845
it's not 30 minutes, but it's one minute.
577
00:27:03.145 --> 00:27:05.645
And we know, and there's a lot of research showing that
578
00:27:05.675 --> 00:27:08.685
that one minute can make a huge difference.
579
00:27:09.465 --> 00:27:11.685
Or, um, you know, one minute of, um,
580
00:27:11.905 --> 00:27:14.325
the 4, 7, 8 breath that Andrew Mm-Hmm.
581
00:27:14.475 --> 00:27:16.045
Wild talks about, you know, there are
582
00:27:16.045 --> 00:27:19.165
so many things we can do in a one minute while being present
583
00:27:20.145 --> 00:27:21.565
and that will enhance.
584
00:27:21.585 --> 00:27:23.125
And we know that, and there's a lot of, lot
585
00:27:23.125 --> 00:27:26.285
of data on this will enhance your spiritual wellbeing
586
00:27:26.345 --> 00:27:28.005
as well as your physical wellbeing.
587
00:27:28.225 --> 00:27:29.925
But let's let, let's move to the P
588
00:27:29.925 --> 00:27:31.205
of spire for a second, please.
589
00:27:31.825 --> 00:27:36.725
So, um, going to the gym, working out for an hour. Great.
590
00:27:37.105 --> 00:27:39.605
You know, doing high intensity interval training
591
00:27:39.745 --> 00:27:41.885
for 15 minutes, amazing. Sounds
592
00:27:42.125 --> 00:27:43.125
Horrible, honestly,
.
593
00:27:44.385 --> 00:27:47.005
But you'll become happier as a result. Yes. Subsequently.
594
00:27:47.705 --> 00:27:49.925
But what about taking 30 seconds
595
00:27:50.025 --> 00:27:51.125
or 45 seconds
596
00:27:51.825 --> 00:27:55.405
for a burst off energy running on the spot
597
00:27:55.405 --> 00:27:59.085
or doing your pushups or sit-ups 45 seconds.
598
00:27:59.425 --> 00:28:01.925
That's all. Now we know, again,
599
00:28:01.925 --> 00:28:03.165
there is research on it showing
600
00:28:03.165 --> 00:28:05.165
that if you do it three times during the day,
601
00:28:05.665 --> 00:28:09.845
you'll actually have the equivalent of a workout.
602
00:28:10.585 --> 00:28:12.325
So it doesn't have to be all at once.
603
00:28:12.325 --> 00:28:14.885
Meaning you can do it, you know, now for 45 seconds,
604
00:28:15.065 --> 00:28:18.365
and then in two hours, another 45 seconds climbing up
605
00:28:18.365 --> 00:28:20.125
and down the stairs, which you can do in the office.
606
00:28:20.385 --> 00:28:21.805
You know, you don't sweat, you don't need
607
00:28:21.805 --> 00:28:22.965
to, you know, shower after.
608
00:28:23.385 --> 00:28:25.685
And then five hours later you do it again when you,
609
00:28:25.685 --> 00:28:28.645
when when you get home, 45 seconds,
610
00:28:29.195 --> 00:28:30.805
minimum viable intervention.
611
00:28:31.075 --> 00:28:32.085
It's cumulative.
612
00:28:32.625 --> 00:28:34.085
And it actually has the effect
613
00:28:35.065 --> 00:28:37.245
of psychological wellbeing impacts,
614
00:28:37.385 --> 00:28:41.085
and it also impacts your, of course, physical wellbeing.
615
00:28:41.465 --> 00:28:43.325
Now, as you're talking, I just wanna remind the person
616
00:28:43.325 --> 00:28:48.055
listening that you're considering this
617
00:28:48.355 --> 00:28:52.175
inside the context of happiness being
618
00:28:53.085 --> 00:28:56.895
wholeness and wellbeing, meaning
619
00:28:57.475 --> 00:29:01.375
you are intentional about caring for your wellbeing.
620
00:29:01.965 --> 00:29:05.535
That these are all components of wholeness,
621
00:29:06.355 --> 00:29:10.095
and these five categories are the ones that matter the most.
622
00:29:10.435 --> 00:29:12.975
So what's another MVI for
623
00:29:13.855 --> 00:29:15.695
I intellectual wellbeing.
624
00:29:15.875 --> 00:29:17.415
So intellectual wellbeing, which is
625
00:29:17.505 --> 00:29:18.975
after spiritual and physical.
626
00:29:18.975 --> 00:29:20.015
It's the third element.
627
00:29:20.635 --> 00:29:24.815
Um, this is about, for example, learning something new. Hmm.
628
00:29:24.815 --> 00:29:26.975
You know, and going online and, uh, looking at these,
629
00:29:26.975 --> 00:29:29.055
you know, short excerpts, okay,
630
00:29:29.055 --> 00:29:30.215
I'm gonna learn a new technique,
631
00:29:30.315 --> 00:29:32.135
or I'm gonna learn a new idea,
632
00:29:32.755 --> 00:29:37.735
or I'm gonna come up with a new question to ask my partner
633
00:29:38.075 --> 00:29:40.015
or my, or my friend.
634
00:29:41.425 --> 00:29:43.765
So this is intellectual wellbeing,
635
00:29:44.025 --> 00:29:47.405
and it's incredible how these small changes,
636
00:29:48.035 --> 00:29:49.405
just asking a question
637
00:29:49.705 --> 00:29:52.485
or just learning something new, then trigger
638
00:29:53.595 --> 00:29:55.245
your curiosity muscles.
639
00:29:55.505 --> 00:29:57.605
You know, by the way, Mel, I forgot to say this,
640
00:29:57.625 --> 00:29:59.645
but curiosity, you know, the, the,
641
00:29:59.665 --> 00:30:01.645
the saying curiosity kills the cat.
642
00:30:01.645 --> 00:30:05.245
Yeah. It turns out that it's the opposite for human beings,
643
00:30:05.275 --> 00:30:08.365
meaning people who are curious, who ask many questions,
644
00:30:08.365 --> 00:30:11.365
who are lifelong learners actually live longer.
645
00:30:11.905 --> 00:30:15.965
Wow. So look at all the benefits of being curious.
646
00:30:17.065 --> 00:30:18.605
So that's intellectual wellbeing.
647
00:30:18.795 --> 00:30:23.345
Then we have relational wellbeing, the R of Spire,
648
00:30:23.765 --> 00:30:25.705
you know, a hug, you know,
649
00:30:25.765 --> 00:30:29.945
and a nice text you send your, um, you know, your partner,
650
00:30:30.925 --> 00:30:33.305
uh, relational wellbeing, you know, really listen,
651
00:30:33.885 --> 00:30:35.945
really listen to someone, be present for them,
652
00:30:35.945 --> 00:30:37.305
even if it's for two minutes.
653
00:30:37.645 --> 00:30:40.665
The impact of it on the relationship, on them,
654
00:30:40.845 --> 00:30:42.665
on you is remarkable.
655
00:30:43.445 --> 00:30:45.145
And yes, of course, if you have two, three hours
656
00:30:45.205 --> 00:30:48.975
to spend together, even better, ideal, good enough
657
00:30:49.235 --> 00:30:50.535
to use those viss,
658
00:30:51.335 --> 00:30:54.295
I am hearing from so many people that listen
659
00:30:54.355 --> 00:30:57.215
to this podcast that are really struggling with loneliness.
660
00:30:58.035 --> 00:31:01.335
And if one aspect of the spire model, one
661
00:31:01.335 --> 00:31:04.615
of the five elements of happiness is your relationships
662
00:31:04.635 --> 00:31:08.455
and wellbeing in that area, um, for somebody
663
00:31:08.455 --> 00:31:10.455
that's just feeling isolated and lonely
664
00:31:10.595 --> 00:31:12.295
or that sense, like, where are all my friends
665
00:31:12.715 --> 00:31:14.935
and feels disconnection,
666
00:31:15.725 --> 00:31:18.135
what does the research say in terms of happiness?
667
00:31:18.755 --> 00:31:20.015
Number one, predictor
668
00:31:20.315 --> 00:31:22.655
of happiness is quality time we spend
669
00:31:22.655 --> 00:31:24.735
with people we care about and who care about us.
670
00:31:25.795 --> 00:31:29.935
Now we also know that, um, the number one predictor
671
00:31:29.935 --> 00:31:32.455
of unhappiness in our world today is loneliness.
672
00:31:33.175 --> 00:31:36.935
Hmm. And this, um, was, uh, exacerbated as a result
673
00:31:36.935 --> 00:31:38.135
of covid, of course,
674
00:31:39.405 --> 00:31:42.735
because what loneliness does is it very often gets us into
675
00:31:42.735 --> 00:31:45.095
this downward spiral where I feel lonely
676
00:31:45.115 --> 00:31:47.735
and I feel, you know, incompetent in the social realm.
677
00:31:48.035 --> 00:31:49.135
And what we need to do in order
678
00:31:49.135 --> 00:31:50.535
to get out of it, is get out of it.
679
00:31:51.345 --> 00:31:54.775
There has to be focused action and intention.
680
00:31:54.995 --> 00:31:59.015
In other words, singletasking rather than multitasking.
681
00:31:59.085 --> 00:32:02.295
Because one of the main causes of loneliness is not the fact
682
00:32:02.295 --> 00:32:03.415
that we're not around people.
683
00:32:03.935 --> 00:32:05.695
Hmm. It's the fact that when we're around people,
684
00:32:05.705 --> 00:32:08.335
we're also doing 20 other things, you know?
685
00:32:08.335 --> 00:32:12.535
Oh, Daniel Goman calls our age, the age of distraction. Yes.
686
00:32:12.715 --> 00:32:13.935
So, you know, if I'm with friends,
687
00:32:13.955 --> 00:32:16.615
but at the same time I'm texting and doing something else,
688
00:32:16.715 --> 00:32:18.695
and they're doing, we're not really together.
689
00:32:19.385 --> 00:32:20.695
Right.
You know, it's, um,
690
00:32:21.035 --> 00:32:22.215
the, the example that I like.
691
00:32:22.215 --> 00:32:24.415
So imagine, imagine you're listening to your favorite piece
692
00:32:24.415 --> 00:32:28.935
of music, and, um, can I share with you what mine is?
693
00:32:29.655 --> 00:32:32.095
Absolutely.
All right. Don't tell anyone
694
00:32:32.095 --> 00:32:33.335
that Drake, no.
695
00:32:34.045 --> 00:32:37.655
Whitney Houston. And I'll always love you. Oh my God.
696
00:32:37.915 --> 00:32:40.845
My favorite song, okay. Of all time.
697
00:32:41.185 --> 00:32:42.965
So imagine you are listening to that
698
00:32:42.985 --> 00:32:44.165
or whatever your favorite is.
699
00:32:44.195 --> 00:32:47.045
Okay. And then you listen to your second most favorite.
700
00:32:47.265 --> 00:32:49.645
And you know, my second most favorite is, uh,
701
00:32:49.795 --> 00:32:51.885
Beethoven's fifth Symphony, pop, pa, pa.
702
00:32:51.905 --> 00:32:56.045
Um, and then for the perfect experience,
703
00:32:56.045 --> 00:32:57.725
you take these two pieces of music
704
00:32:58.145 --> 00:32:59.325
and you play them together
705
00:32:59.865 --> 00:33:00.865
At the same time.
706
00:33:00.865 --> 00:33:03.605
At the same time. It's cacophony it's noise.
707
00:33:04.465 --> 00:33:06.325
And that's modern life for you.
708
00:33:07.355 --> 00:33:10.365
Because what we're doing is we're trying to pack
709
00:33:10.365 --> 00:33:11.925
because of, you know, fomo
710
00:33:11.925 --> 00:33:13.845
because, uh, you know, you know, we are eager
711
00:33:13.845 --> 00:33:16.525
to experience things, we pack in many things.
712
00:33:16.545 --> 00:33:18.965
So while we're with friends, we're also, you know,
713
00:33:18.965 --> 00:33:20.125
doing some work perhaps.
714
00:33:20.125 --> 00:33:21.605
And while we're with the, you know, kids,
715
00:33:21.605 --> 00:33:25.005
we're also watching a movie, and you can't do it all.
716
00:33:26.245 --> 00:33:27.655
Well, you can do a lot,
717
00:33:27.755 --> 00:33:29.375
but you certainly can't enjoy it all.
718
00:33:29.375 --> 00:33:31.375
Mm. And much of our sense of loneliness comes
719
00:33:31.805 --> 00:33:33.775
because when we're with other people,
720
00:33:34.185 --> 00:33:35.975
we're not really with other people.
721
00:33:36.755 --> 00:33:39.495
And what we need to do is put down a, uh, put time aside,
722
00:33:40.035 --> 00:33:42.335
and it doesn't have to be seven hours, you know,
723
00:33:42.335 --> 00:33:44.095
even if it's an hour twice a week,
724
00:33:44.395 --> 00:33:48.335
or that text that you commit yourself to mindfully,
725
00:33:49.555 --> 00:33:53.745
these small, committed, focused activities
726
00:33:54.925 --> 00:33:59.185
can get us out of the sense of loneliness or unhappiness.
727
00:33:59.895 --> 00:34:02.945
Beautiful. Beautiful. What a beautiful metaphor.
728
00:34:03.525 --> 00:34:04.705
It makes so much sense.
729
00:34:05.245 --> 00:34:07.065
And finally, emotional wellbeing.
730
00:34:07.645 --> 00:34:10.065
That's about, you know, the gratitude journal.
731
00:34:10.695 --> 00:34:14.665
Take a minute to write three things
732
00:34:14.665 --> 00:34:15.825
that you are grateful for.
733
00:34:16.045 --> 00:34:17.145
You know, close your eyes
734
00:34:17.325 --> 00:34:21.985
and savor, savor what, what you have, uh, right now.
735
00:34:22.525 --> 00:34:26.585
Or write a journal about what's hurting you for two minutes.
736
00:34:27.095 --> 00:34:30.625
There's research showing that even two minute journaling,
737
00:34:30.655 --> 00:34:33.145
whether it's about difficult experiences
738
00:34:33.485 --> 00:34:35.825
or about ecstatic experiences,
739
00:34:36.165 --> 00:34:39.345
two minutes actually make us happier and healthier.
740
00:34:39.725 --> 00:34:41.225
Better to write it in a journal
741
00:34:41.325 --> 00:34:44.065
or to talk about it than to just ruminate over it. Why,
742
00:34:44.085 --> 00:34:45.825
Why is it better to write in a journal and talk about it?
743
00:34:46.245 --> 00:34:49.985
So, so, so here I'm drawing on research by Sonya Luki,
744
00:34:50.075 --> 00:34:51.985
who's a professor at uc Riverside.
745
00:34:52.045 --> 00:34:56.305
And what she shows is that when we are dealing with, um,
746
00:34:57.645 --> 00:34:59.465
uh, painful emotions Mm-hmm
747
00:34:59.545 --> 00:35:02.905
or difficult experiences, we can either talk about it,
748
00:35:02.955 --> 00:35:05.305
write about it, or think about it, people
749
00:35:05.305 --> 00:35:07.025
who think about it, it actually gets worse.
750
00:35:07.845 --> 00:35:10.825
We ruminate, we go down the rabbit hole downward spiral,
751
00:35:11.365 --> 00:35:14.865
and we can stay there for, for hours or sometimes weeks
752
00:35:15.205 --> 00:35:16.785
Or decades in some people. Right?
753
00:35:16.975 --> 00:35:20.785
Exactly. Whereas if we write about it
754
00:35:20.925 --> 00:35:24.345
or talk about it, there's a much higher likelihood
755
00:35:24.535 --> 00:35:26.145
that will emerge stronger.
756
00:35:26.765 --> 00:35:28.825
Why? Because what we're doing when we're writing
757
00:35:28.885 --> 00:35:31.385
and talking about it, we're actually making sense of it.
758
00:35:31.805 --> 00:35:33.185
You know, so often, and, you know,
759
00:35:33.185 --> 00:35:35.465
this is work on journaling, Jamie Penny Baker
760
00:35:35.525 --> 00:35:38.045
and others showing that when we write
761
00:35:38.615 --> 00:35:41.805
about something very often we reach a aha moment,
762
00:35:42.305 --> 00:35:45.005
or, oh, now I see what, what, what's happening?
763
00:35:45.005 --> 00:35:46.285
Or now I see what I need to do.
764
00:35:47.545 --> 00:35:50.325
And then it becomes more manageable,
765
00:35:51.105 --> 00:35:53.365
it becomes more coherent, more clear,
766
00:35:54.465 --> 00:35:57.525
and we're ready to move on and we know what we ought to do.
767
00:35:57.625 --> 00:35:59.045
So writing and talking about it,
768
00:35:59.045 --> 00:36:01.645
rather than ruminating about it, is very important.
769
00:36:03.545 --> 00:36:07.425
And then after we have, uh, written about,
770
00:36:07.425 --> 00:36:09.145
talked about it, just do it.
771
00:36:09.615 --> 00:36:14.225
What is it? It could be an MVIA minimum viable intervention.
772
00:36:14.525 --> 00:36:18.625
It could be, you know, go to the gym it doing, it could be,
773
00:36:18.685 --> 00:36:20.065
you know, go out with friends,
774
00:36:20.065 --> 00:36:22.145
even if you don't really feel like it,
775
00:36:22.525 --> 00:36:24.385
but keep on experimenting
776
00:36:24.385 --> 00:36:26.385
with truths rather than sitting down
777
00:36:26.385 --> 00:36:29.665
and trying to figure out the meaning of life or,
778
00:36:30.085 --> 00:36:31.705
or the, the, the, the ultimate answer
779
00:36:31.705 --> 00:36:32.785
to the universe. You know,
780
00:36:33.105 --> 00:36:36.585
I have something to share that, um, happened
781
00:36:36.735 --> 00:36:40.625
with my sister-in-law business partner and friend Christine.
782
00:36:41.925 --> 00:36:45.265
She had been, uh, somebody that really loved going
783
00:36:45.265 --> 00:36:48.985
to church, and then like many of us life gets busy
784
00:36:48.985 --> 00:36:50.865
with your kids, especially if they're in these sports
785
00:36:51.145 --> 00:36:52.225
teams and everything else.
786
00:36:52.565 --> 00:36:54.145
And something happened at the church.
787
00:36:54.325 --> 00:36:55.745
And so they kind of stopped going.
788
00:36:56.685 --> 00:36:59.865
And for a number of years, she thought about it
789
00:37:00.325 --> 00:37:01.985
and thought about it, and thought about it.
790
00:37:02.565 --> 00:37:07.065
And recently, let's talk MVIA minimum viable intervention.
791
00:37:07.685 --> 00:37:10.225
She just got up off her rear end.
792
00:37:10.445 --> 00:37:12.825
She didn't wait for her husband and sons to go with her.
793
00:37:13.165 --> 00:37:18.145
And she just, one Sunday went back to one service.
794
00:37:18.925 --> 00:37:22.905
And I will tell you that there is something, if we go back
795
00:37:22.905 --> 00:37:24.305
to the rainbow analogy,
796
00:37:25.005 --> 00:37:28.305
and you think about happiness being
797
00:37:28.885 --> 00:37:31.345
an indirect thing in your life,
798
00:37:31.495 --> 00:37:33.665
that you feel in multiple ways
799
00:37:34.575 --> 00:37:38.465
that one small action of no longer thinking about it.
800
00:37:38.465 --> 00:37:42.185
But going back, it has created
801
00:37:43.335 --> 00:37:46.585
more, it's almost like if, if you think about a rainbow,
802
00:37:46.875 --> 00:37:49.505
there is a hue there, there's a vibrancy there.
803
00:37:49.565 --> 00:37:51.545
And I love this word wholeness
804
00:37:51.935 --> 00:37:54.785
because it is part of her wellbeing
805
00:37:55.445 --> 00:37:56.945
to have a spiritual practice.
806
00:37:57.605 --> 00:38:00.705
And it does create a vibrancy
807
00:38:00.925 --> 00:38:03.465
and a wholeness in that area of her life.
808
00:38:03.485 --> 00:38:07.225
It is one simple change. It is an hour every week.
809
00:38:08.205 --> 00:38:10.225
She, it is not dependent on anybody else
810
00:38:10.225 --> 00:38:11.385
in her family doing it.
811
00:38:11.725 --> 00:38:16.105
And to me, that is a very clear example of
812
00:38:16.105 --> 00:38:18.945
what you're talking about in terms of how it relates
813
00:38:19.005 --> 00:38:21.065
to these five elements of happiness
814
00:38:21.445 --> 00:38:24.705
and how you can just in very small ways,
815
00:38:25.075 --> 00:38:26.905
small experience what you're talking about.
816
00:38:27.615 --> 00:38:30.385
Yeah. So, so I love that story, and I love it
817
00:38:30.385 --> 00:38:32.825
because of what you brought up saying
818
00:38:32.825 --> 00:38:34.785
that it's one small action.
819
00:38:35.275 --> 00:38:39.285
It's not all or nothing, experiment with these small truths.
820
00:38:40.305 --> 00:38:41.845
You know, I'm wondering, as one
821
00:38:41.845 --> 00:38:43.645
of the world's most respected
822
00:38:43.645 --> 00:38:45.285
and leading experts on happiness,
823
00:38:45.475 --> 00:38:47.405
what do you do every day to be happier?
824
00:38:48.185 --> 00:38:50.885
Mm-Hmm. . Um, you know, I do the basics.
825
00:38:51.565 --> 00:38:54.005
I wake up in the morning and I do my meditation.
826
00:38:54.665 --> 00:38:56.605
Now, do you lay in bed? Do you get up? No.
827
00:38:56.625 --> 00:38:58.485
Do you, like, do you, how do you do
828
00:38:58.485 --> 00:38:59.485
Your meditation?
829
00:38:59.485 --> 00:39:01.405
Yeah, I, I lay in bed, and again, I'm a morning Is that
830
00:39:01.405 --> 00:39:03.285
Technically like, just sort of snoozing?
831
00:39:03.285 --> 00:39:05.285
Like, what are you doing? Like, you literally are like,
832
00:39:05.285 --> 00:39:07.365
you wake up and then you meditate while you're here, and
833
00:39:07.365 --> 00:39:08.365
Then I meditate.
834
00:39:08.365 --> 00:39:09.765
And again, this is, this is good for a morning.
835
00:39:09.865 --> 00:39:12.605
I'm a morning person. Uhhuh . So when I wake up, I wake up.
836
00:39:12.605 --> 00:39:14.365
Okay. It's not, I won't fall asleep again.
837
00:39:14.705 --> 00:39:16.565
But for people who, for whom it's difficult
838
00:39:16.565 --> 00:39:18.605
to wake up in the morning, get out of bed, you know,
839
00:39:18.605 --> 00:39:20.845
wash your face, do whatever you need to energize,
840
00:39:20.865 --> 00:39:22.205
and then sit down if you need or,
841
00:39:22.305 --> 00:39:23.925
or walk, do walking meditation.
842
00:39:23.925 --> 00:39:26.405
Right. But meditation is, uh, is where I start.
843
00:39:26.865 --> 00:39:31.845
And then, um, I read, and I, and I, I love reading in bed
844
00:39:31.845 --> 00:39:33.125
and I read quality stuff.
845
00:39:33.285 --> 00:39:36.405
I don't look at the news. Uh, that's very
846
00:39:36.405 --> 00:39:37.405
Important.
847
00:39:37.405 --> 00:39:38.365
You're not looking at TMZ on your phone. No. ,
848
00:39:39.105 --> 00:39:42.205
I'm just kidding. Yeah. That yes, but not the other news.
849
00:39:42.745 --> 00:39:47.005
Um, so, so I do quality stuff in the morning, then,
850
00:39:47.185 --> 00:39:50.325
you know, I'm, I, I'm, I'm responsible for taking the kids
851
00:39:50.465 --> 00:39:52.725
to, uh, to, to school. Um,
852
00:39:52.925 --> 00:39:54.365
I love
That. Yeah. And they might,
853
00:39:54.565 --> 00:39:55.565
I bet they love that too.
854
00:39:55.675 --> 00:39:56.925
They do. And, and I do.
855
00:39:56.925 --> 00:40:00.165
And, and, and always, and we have a sort of a, a ritual
856
00:40:00.865 --> 00:40:03.805
around, uh, around that, you know, where, where, where we,
857
00:40:03.805 --> 00:40:05.485
where we talk and then they ask me, okay, dad,
858
00:40:05.545 --> 00:40:06.645
one message for the day.
859
00:40:07.585 --> 00:40:11.925
And it could be something like, um, be generous, be kind,
860
00:40:12.625 --> 00:40:14.885
or appreciate, or whatever, whatever it is.
861
00:40:15.025 --> 00:40:16.125
And they go with it. And,
862
00:40:16.125 --> 00:40:17.605
and they also share it with their friends.
863
00:40:18.345 --> 00:40:20.725
That's pretty cool. Uh, yeah. So, so we have that.
864
00:40:20.725 --> 00:40:22.725
And then, and then I go home and I, and,
865
00:40:22.745 --> 00:40:26.245
and I work, mornings are my, my productive hours.
866
00:40:26.745 --> 00:40:29.405
And then I do yoga in the, in the afternoon.
867
00:40:30.465 --> 00:40:34.005
Um, almost every day, you know, I have, uh, have lunch with,
868
00:40:34.025 --> 00:40:37.685
uh, with my wife and, um,
869
00:40:38.885 --> 00:40:40.545
and then sometimes work in the afternoon,
870
00:40:40.685 --> 00:40:41.905
you know, do sports.
871
00:40:42.105 --> 00:40:44.465
I do a lot of sports, you know. Do you still play squash?
872
00:40:44.865 --> 00:40:47.185
I play squash. I, I didn't play squash for 25 years,
873
00:40:47.205 --> 00:40:49.105
and I always said, if one of my kids plays,
874
00:40:49.255 --> 00:40:50.505
then I'll take it up again.
875
00:40:50.505 --> 00:40:53.305
And our little one, our 14-year-old plays squash.
876
00:40:53.445 --> 00:40:54.825
So I play with him.
877
00:40:55.145 --> 00:40:56.945
I bet you're a monster on the pickleball court.
878
00:40:57.655 --> 00:40:59.145
I've never played pickleball bet, but,
879
00:40:59.205 --> 00:41:00.505
but I want destroy it.
880
00:41:00.585 --> 00:41:02.745
I want to. So you just, yeah. Yeah.
881
00:41:03.765 --> 00:41:07.745
And, um, so yeah. And then, you know, I, I love movies.
882
00:41:08.385 --> 00:41:09.865
I love, you know, reading, hanging out
883
00:41:09.895 --> 00:41:11.745
with friends, uh, family.
884
00:41:12.825 --> 00:41:14.105
I wanna reflect on something
885
00:41:14.575 --> 00:41:17.105
because what you're describing
886
00:41:18.165 --> 00:41:20.685
sounds like a happy life.
887
00:41:21.745 --> 00:41:24.285
And if you're not watching this on YouTube,
888
00:41:25.695 --> 00:41:28.435
you can probably hear in TA's voice that he's smiling
889
00:41:29.255 --> 00:41:30.475
as he's reflecting on this.
890
00:41:31.525 --> 00:41:36.415
And it is true that so many of us make ourselves unhappy
891
00:41:36.415 --> 00:41:41.255
because we think that the answer
892
00:41:41.355 --> 00:41:44.535
to it is something out there that national championship,
893
00:41:44.675 --> 00:41:46.775
the getting into the right school, the right grades,
894
00:41:46.835 --> 00:41:47.855
the right this, the right that,
895
00:41:48.795 --> 00:41:52.495
and what you just described is the little
896
00:41:53.035 --> 00:41:55.855
things you do every day that make you feel whole.
897
00:41:56.375 --> 00:41:58.175
Hmm. There's something very important,
898
00:41:58.635 --> 00:41:59.855
Mel, that I want to add.
899
00:42:01.035 --> 00:42:03.495
You know, it may sound, you know, fairytale.
900
00:42:03.495 --> 00:42:06.135
Oh, he is always happy and always smiling far from
901
00:42:06.135 --> 00:42:07.375
it. I have my bad
902
00:42:07.375 --> 00:42:08.375
Day.
903
00:42:08.375 --> 00:42:09.015
Why I ask your kids, I said, some days you're a real
904
00:42:09.015 --> 00:42:10.015
jerk.
.
905
00:42:10.645 --> 00:42:12.455
Just kidding. They don't say, they don't say jerk,
906
00:42:12.475 --> 00:42:13.815
but they say, daddy chill.
907
00:42:13.965 --> 00:42:15.615
Yeah. Chill. chill. Yeah.
908
00:42:16.235 --> 00:42:18.975
Um, and, um, and, and,
909
00:42:18.975 --> 00:42:21.215
and it's, it's important to, to understand, you know,
910
00:42:21.215 --> 00:42:24.255
not every morning when I get up, I want to write, you know,
911
00:42:24.255 --> 00:42:25.415
some mornings I get up and I want
912
00:42:25.415 --> 00:42:26.575
to stay in bed and do nothing.
913
00:42:27.005 --> 00:42:29.815
What is most important is what we do,
914
00:42:30.075 --> 00:42:31.495
rather than what we feel.
915
00:42:32.785 --> 00:42:35.765
You know, I do what I, what I do, whether it's the yoga,
916
00:42:35.765 --> 00:42:38.005
whether it's the writing, whether it's spending time with,
917
00:42:38.035 --> 00:42:39.245
with family and friends.
918
00:42:39.845 --> 00:42:41.885
I do it even if I don't feel like it.
919
00:42:43.455 --> 00:42:45.875
And over time, what we do affects us.
920
00:42:47.495 --> 00:42:49.355
It also affects our feelings.
921
00:42:49.935 --> 00:42:54.035
You know, Tal, when I was researching, uh, your work
922
00:42:54.135 --> 00:42:55.955
to get ready for this conversation today,
923
00:42:56.035 --> 00:42:59.755
I came across a video that you did that has 7 million views
924
00:42:59.805 --> 00:43:02.115
where you say, stop chasing happiness,
925
00:43:02.415 --> 00:43:04.115
and you want us to focus on something else.
926
00:43:04.265 --> 00:43:07.275
Instead, I'm gonna ask you to tell us what we're supposed
927
00:43:07.275 --> 00:43:10.115
to be focused on after a short word from our sponsors.
928
00:43:10.215 --> 00:43:11.795
So stay with us, you'll be happy you did.
929
00:43:19.725 --> 00:43:21.975
Welcome back. It's your friend Mel Robbins.
930
00:43:21.995 --> 00:43:23.455
I'm so happy you're here with me today
931
00:43:23.455 --> 00:43:27.535
because we are getting to spend time with Tal Ben Shahar.
932
00:43:27.605 --> 00:43:29.895
He's one of the most respected
933
00:43:29.915 --> 00:43:32.455
and prolific experts on happiness in the world.
934
00:43:32.515 --> 00:43:34.855
And he is the most popular professor
935
00:43:34.855 --> 00:43:36.415
to ever teach at Harvard.
936
00:43:36.555 --> 00:43:38.175
He taught positive psychology.
937
00:43:38.875 --> 00:43:41.095
And we're digging into 30 years of research
938
00:43:41.555 --> 00:43:45.575
and what research says about how you can be happier.
939
00:43:46.185 --> 00:43:48.455
We've already covered the definition of happiness
940
00:43:48.555 --> 00:43:50.175
as this sense of wholeness.
941
00:43:50.545 --> 00:43:52.815
We've talked about the five elements of happiness.
942
00:43:52.845 --> 00:43:53.975
He's made it very clear
943
00:43:53.975 --> 00:43:55.655
that this is not about checking boxes.
944
00:43:56.045 --> 00:43:57.655
It's not about achieving goals.
945
00:43:57.765 --> 00:44:01.975
It's about pursuing small 1% changes
946
00:44:02.795 --> 00:44:04.575
in these five areas of your life.
947
00:44:05.195 --> 00:44:08.415
And one of the most popular things you've ever put out
948
00:44:08.555 --> 00:44:11.095
online has 7 million views in less than a year.
949
00:44:11.665 --> 00:44:14.735
Don't chase happiness become anti-fragile. What?
950
00:44:14.805 --> 00:44:16.335
What does anti-fragile mean?
951
00:44:16.685 --> 00:44:18.415
Yeah. You know, that's one of those concepts
952
00:44:18.415 --> 00:44:20.575
that really made a difference in my life.
953
00:44:20.685 --> 00:44:24.215
It's a, it's an idea that I read about through the work
954
00:44:24.275 --> 00:44:27.375
of Nasim Tale, who's a professor at, uh,
955
00:44:27.375 --> 00:44:28.415
New York University.
956
00:44:29.195 --> 00:44:32.365
And what is anti-fragility the opposite of fragility,
957
00:44:32.505 --> 00:44:36.445
or I've come to look at it as resilience 2.0.
958
00:44:36.675 --> 00:44:39.845
Okay. So let's begin with 1.0. resilience. , please.
959
00:44:40.845 --> 00:44:42.325
Resilience 1.0 is actually a term
960
00:44:42.325 --> 00:44:43.365
that comes from engineering.
961
00:44:43.705 --> 00:44:47.045
It simply means that resilience 1.0 comes from engineering
962
00:44:47.485 --> 00:44:49.045
resilience as a term comes from engineering.
963
00:44:49.145 --> 00:44:50.285
See that Computer science,
964
00:44:50.665 --> 00:44:52.805
the classes you'd took, there you go.
965
00:44:52.805 --> 00:44:56.965
Good step. Absolutely . So what, what, what it means is
966
00:44:56.965 --> 00:44:58.565
that if you have certain material
967
00:44:58.665 --> 00:45:00.405
and you put pressure on it, mm.
968
00:45:00.465 --> 00:45:03.005
If it's resilient, it goes back to its original form.
969
00:45:03.025 --> 00:45:06.165
Mm-Hmm. , uh, you squish, you know, a piece of, uh, rubber
970
00:45:06.925 --> 00:45:09.325
resilient, it returns to where it was before.
971
00:45:09.345 --> 00:45:11.765
Yep. A ball, you drop it, if it's resilient,
972
00:45:11.765 --> 00:45:14.125
it bounces back up to where it was before.
973
00:45:14.305 --> 00:45:18.325
So that's 1.0. What's resilience 2.0 or anti-fragility?
974
00:45:18.985 --> 00:45:20.645
You take material, you put pressure
975
00:45:20.645 --> 00:45:22.845
and stress on it as a result of the pressure
976
00:45:22.845 --> 00:45:27.325
and stress, it actually grows stronger, bigger, healthier.
977
00:45:27.745 --> 00:45:30.245
Or you drop a ball, resilience 1.0,
978
00:45:30.245 --> 00:45:32.365
it simply bounces back 2.0,
979
00:45:32.515 --> 00:45:36.565
antifragility it bounces back higher as a result.
980
00:45:37.185 --> 00:45:38.845
So that's antifragility.
981
00:45:38.845 --> 00:45:41.445
And it turns out that there are antifragile systems all
982
00:45:41.445 --> 00:45:42.965
around us and within us.
983
00:45:43.615 --> 00:45:46.245
Think about it. For example, our muscular system.
984
00:45:46.665 --> 00:45:49.725
You go to the gym, you're putting stress on your muscles.
985
00:45:50.115 --> 00:45:51.445
What happens as a result of it?
986
00:45:51.545 --> 00:45:54.165
If you persist, you actually grow stronger, bigger,
987
00:45:54.195 --> 00:45:56.365
healthier as a result of that stress,
988
00:45:56.575 --> 00:46:00.485
where anti-fragile systems, not just physiologically,
989
00:46:01.195 --> 00:46:02.725
also psychologically.
990
00:46:03.425 --> 00:46:04.525
And that's important.
991
00:46:05.705 --> 00:46:09.125
You know, I, most of the students in my class, not all,
992
00:46:09.125 --> 00:46:10.925
but most of them were psychology majors.
993
00:46:10.945 --> 00:46:13.365
And I would always ask them two questions.
994
00:46:13.385 --> 00:46:15.965
The first question was, put your hand up if you know
995
00:46:15.965 --> 00:46:19.245
what PTSD is just about everyone in the
996
00:46:19.245 --> 00:46:20.645
class put their hand up.
997
00:46:20.645 --> 00:46:22.445
They've heard of post-traumatic stress disorder.
998
00:46:22.565 --> 00:46:25.365
They've read about it, studied it in Psych one newspaper.
999
00:46:25.365 --> 00:46:26.885
Mm-Hmm. people know what it is.
1000
00:46:27.185 --> 00:46:28.565
And I said, okay, put your hands down
1001
00:46:28.565 --> 00:46:29.925
and now put your hands up.
1002
00:46:29.925 --> 00:46:32.405
If you've heard of the term PTG,
1003
00:46:33.785 --> 00:46:35.965
hardly anyone put their hand up.
1004
00:46:35.985 --> 00:46:37.605
And again, these are psychology majors.
1005
00:46:38.445 --> 00:46:42.125
PTG stands for post traumatic growth.
1006
00:46:43.185 --> 00:46:46.725
So, whereas PTSD is breaking down, being fragile,
1007
00:46:47.445 --> 00:46:51.845
PTG post-traumatic growth is being anti-fragile growing
1008
00:46:51.905 --> 00:46:54.765
as a result of trauma or hardship or difficulty.
1009
00:46:55.785 --> 00:46:58.445
How do you do that? So here is the thing.
1010
00:46:59.115 --> 00:47:00.805
This is, this amazed me about the research,
1011
00:47:00.805 --> 00:47:03.045
and there's a lot of research by Tadeshi Calhoun
1012
00:47:03.045 --> 00:47:07.925
and others merely knowing about the existence of PTG
1013
00:47:07.945 --> 00:47:10.605
of post-traumatic growth of antifragility
1014
00:47:11.485 --> 00:47:13.485
actually makes it more likely to happen.
1015
00:47:14.025 --> 00:47:15.445
Wow. Why?
1016
00:47:15.795 --> 00:47:19.725
Because what is knowing about PTG do for us?
1017
00:47:20.195 --> 00:47:22.725
What it does for us is it actually gives us hope
1018
00:47:23.315 --> 00:47:24.365
because Oh, okay.
1019
00:47:24.365 --> 00:47:26.325
So I'm going through hardship difficulties.
1020
00:47:26.425 --> 00:47:29.205
I'm really struggling, but I can actually grow from this.
1021
00:47:29.865 --> 00:47:31.005
So I become hopeful.
1022
00:47:31.905 --> 00:47:34.125
Now, if you think about it, what is the main difference
1023
00:47:34.635 --> 00:47:37.205
between sadness and depression?
1024
00:47:37.505 --> 00:47:38.885
The main difference between sadness
1025
00:47:39.065 --> 00:47:40.405
and depression is
1026
00:47:40.405 --> 00:47:44.445
that depression is sadness without hope.
1027
00:47:45.705 --> 00:47:48.095
Depression is sadness without hope,
1028
00:47:48.615 --> 00:47:49.895
sadness. I mean, it comes,
1029
00:47:50.155 --> 00:47:51.655
You, you feel it every day. Yeah.
1030
00:47:51.715 --> 00:47:55.175
10 times a day, sometimes big deal. That too shall pass.
1031
00:47:55.675 --> 00:47:59.895
But if that sadness, um, is devoid of hope, you know,
1032
00:47:59.895 --> 00:48:03.255
that too shall pass, then that's problematic.
1033
00:48:03.555 --> 00:48:06.215
That's when we become hopeless. Yes.
1034
00:48:06.315 --> 00:48:09.135
And that's when we experience being helpless.
1035
00:48:10.215 --> 00:48:14.155
And that's depression. So knowing about PTG gives us hope,
1036
00:48:14.645 --> 00:48:16.035
makes it more likely to happen.
1037
00:48:16.035 --> 00:48:17.715
It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
1038
00:48:17.775 --> 00:48:20.395
And remember, most people have never heard of these terms,
1039
00:48:20.445 --> 00:48:23.395
don't know that it's even in the realm of the possible.
1040
00:48:23.975 --> 00:48:25.075
So that's the first thing.
1041
00:48:25.515 --> 00:48:27.875
I love that. Because the other thing that's happened,
1042
00:48:27.875 --> 00:48:32.275
and I know that you see this too, is just
1043
00:48:33.215 --> 00:48:37.555
the proliferation of short form content on social media
1044
00:48:38.215 --> 00:48:40.755
has so much about identifying trauma.
1045
00:48:41.565 --> 00:48:43.465
And it would be wonderful,
1046
00:48:44.625 --> 00:48:48.495
especially based on this research, if there were just
1047
00:48:48.555 --> 00:48:50.555
as many reels
1048
00:48:50.775 --> 00:48:54.235
and social media posts about post-traumatic growth,
1049
00:48:54.945 --> 00:48:58.035
that knowing that you are struggling with something
1050
00:48:59.015 --> 00:49:01.195
is the first step to kind of knowing
1051
00:49:01.225 --> 00:49:02.315
what you need to address.
1052
00:49:02.735 --> 00:49:05.515
But being aware that you can grow
1053
00:49:05.515 --> 00:49:07.035
through this and be stronger.
1054
00:49:07.095 --> 00:49:09.315
And I think we all know this
1055
00:49:09.315 --> 00:49:10.715
somewhere in the back of our mind.
1056
00:49:10.775 --> 00:49:13.475
And even if I look back on my own life tall,
1057
00:49:13.535 --> 00:49:17.475
and I think about, um, like even a period of my marriage
1058
00:49:17.765 --> 00:49:20.235
where my husband and I like wanted to kill each other.
1059
00:49:21.015 --> 00:49:25.635
And we went to therapy. Our marriage was in the pits.
1060
00:49:26.255 --> 00:49:29.195
We were, we'd been together for over 20 years,
1061
00:49:29.575 --> 00:49:31.795
and we were just having a lot of problems,
1062
00:49:31.815 --> 00:49:34.075
and we were not feeling connected with one another.
1063
00:49:34.415 --> 00:49:38.315
And I can see that if you're in a situation
1064
00:49:38.315 --> 00:49:40.435
that's very difficult, whether you're grieving
1065
00:49:41.095 --> 00:49:42.955
or you're having a relationship problem,
1066
00:49:43.095 --> 00:49:44.995
or you've now just lost your third job
1067
00:49:45.095 --> 00:49:49.955
or whatever it may be, and you add a sense of hopelessness
1068
00:49:50.095 --> 00:49:52.635
to it, you've just driven a nail into the
1069
00:49:52.635 --> 00:49:54.035
coffin and sealed it shut.
1070
00:49:54.545 --> 00:49:56.635
It's the hope that it can get better.
1071
00:49:58.185 --> 00:50:01.645
That is what allows you to grow through it.
1072
00:50:01.785 --> 00:50:03.605
And you're here to say that no matter
1073
00:50:03.835 --> 00:50:05.445
what the traumatic experience
1074
00:50:05.585 --> 00:50:08.085
or the heaviness of the emotion
1075
00:50:08.385 --> 00:50:12.325
or the very real life experience that you may be living
1076
00:50:12.325 --> 00:50:16.525
through right now, that just like a sun can shine
1077
00:50:16.525 --> 00:50:21.325
through a prism and cast a rainbow, so too hope can shine
1078
00:50:21.325 --> 00:50:24.525
through this experience and you can grow stronger.
1079
00:50:24.705 --> 00:50:27.660
And even just knowing that in your definition
1080
00:50:27.985 --> 00:50:32.685
of being a whole human being who takes care of self,
1081
00:50:33.555 --> 00:50:36.645
that hope is a critical ingredient to you getting better.
1082
00:50:36.705 --> 00:50:37.885
That's, is that what you're saying?
1083
00:50:38.365 --> 00:50:40.285
Absolutely. And it's a critical period for you
1084
00:50:40.345 --> 00:50:41.445
as an individual getting better.
1085
00:50:41.445 --> 00:50:44.925
It's a critical element of a relationship,
1086
00:50:45.145 --> 00:50:46.245
as you pointed out.
1087
00:50:46.915 --> 00:50:51.525
It's also a critical element of national growth.
1088
00:50:51.945 --> 00:50:53.405
Yes. That's exactly what happened.
1089
00:50:53.445 --> 00:50:55.525
I realized I didn't complete the whole thing is that
1090
00:50:56.345 --> 00:50:58.125
in working through it
1091
00:50:58.945 --> 00:51:01.685
and having the really hard conversations and,
1092
00:51:01.745 --> 00:51:03.645
and really exploring ourselves
1093
00:51:04.585 --> 00:51:08.325
and sticking through the very hard,
1094
00:51:08.635 --> 00:51:13.435
painful times, I have a profound sense
1095
00:51:13.775 --> 00:51:18.275
of in your definition, that you are giving us tal a sense
1096
00:51:18.275 --> 00:51:21.195
of wholeness in the relationship
1097
00:51:21.935 --> 00:51:24.635
and also a sense of wholeness with self.
1098
00:51:25.735 --> 00:51:28.235
And it's true. If you really are listening to
1099
00:51:28.235 --> 00:51:30.235
what t's saying and you reflect on your own life,
1100
00:51:30.255 --> 00:51:32.675
and you think about any moment in your life
1101
00:51:32.745 --> 00:51:37.215
that was crazy painful, notice whether
1102
00:51:37.275 --> 00:51:38.815
or not as you moved through it
1103
00:51:39.475 --> 00:51:43.715
and you really are honest with yourself, that there was
1104
00:51:43.825 --> 00:51:47.275
that bounce up effect that happens
1105
00:51:47.565 --> 00:51:50.675
after it as you move through the grief or the disappointment
1106
00:51:50.895 --> 00:51:53.995
or the heartbreak that all of a sudden you wake up one day
1107
00:51:54.335 --> 00:51:56.555
and you weren't staring at the sun directly going,
1108
00:51:56.575 --> 00:51:59.795
I'm gonna be having a, you were just slowly working
1109
00:52:00.335 --> 00:52:03.835
on your wellbeing and you felt different.
1110
00:52:04.015 --> 00:52:07.195
And it, it, as I really listen closely to
1111
00:52:07.195 --> 00:52:09.795
what you're teaching us, I think that's
1112
00:52:09.795 --> 00:52:11.275
what I'm starting to take away.
1113
00:52:12.175 --> 00:52:13.515
And, and I will add to that.
1114
00:52:13.575 --> 00:52:17.715
And, and you know, you mentioned earlier about how knowing
1115
00:52:18.665 --> 00:52:21.435
that you can grow from it Mm-Hmm.
1116
00:52:21.545 --> 00:52:23.915
contributes to your, uh, to your wellbeing.
1117
00:52:24.505 --> 00:52:26.235
Just knowing that a gridlock
1118
00:52:26.775 --> 00:52:31.155
or hardships, these are all natural parts
1119
00:52:31.415 --> 00:52:33.315
of our evolution of life.
1120
00:52:33.335 --> 00:52:36.115
You know, no, no one is exempt from these no relationship.
1121
00:52:36.135 --> 00:52:38.635
It could be the best, you know, fairytale relationship.
1122
00:52:38.785 --> 00:52:40.955
They'll have their gridlocks just knowing
1123
00:52:40.955 --> 00:52:43.915
that it's a natural part of a relationship that is, uh,
1124
00:52:44.175 --> 00:52:45.235
you know, uplifting.
1125
00:52:45.235 --> 00:52:46.715
Because it's liberating
1126
00:52:47.065 --> 00:52:49.515
because you are saying, oh, okay, it's normal.
1127
00:52:49.775 --> 00:52:51.955
And that's exactly what I felt after reading Schnarch
1128
00:52:51.975 --> 00:52:55.395
and going through a gridlock with my amazing wife saying,
1129
00:52:55.625 --> 00:52:57.195
okay, so, so, so it's fine.
1130
00:52:57.195 --> 00:53:01.435
That too shall pass. And that's what gives hope.
1131
00:53:02.115 --> 00:53:05.995
Hmm. And that is what becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
1132
00:53:05.995 --> 00:53:08.915
Because through that hope you actually grow within the
1133
00:53:08.915 --> 00:53:10.555
relationship or in another context.
1134
00:53:10.905 --> 00:53:13.515
It's so true. You know, with the 30 years
1135
00:53:14.145 --> 00:53:16.955
that you have spent researching this topic,
1136
00:53:17.575 --> 00:53:19.635
is there anything that bubbles up from the research
1137
00:53:19.745 --> 00:53:22.515
that is top predictors of whether
1138
00:53:22.655 --> 00:53:25.035
or not you're gonna have that sense of wholeness
1139
00:53:25.265 --> 00:53:26.645
and happiness in your life?
1140
00:53:28.225 --> 00:53:33.205
Um, the number one would be the belief
1141
00:53:34.075 --> 00:53:35.325
that you can make a difference
1142
00:53:36.035 --> 00:53:37.035
With your happiness.
1143
00:53:37.035 --> 00:53:39.885
With your happiness. You know, many, many people ask me,
1144
00:53:39.945 --> 00:53:43.645
um, so what is the, uh, the, the content of, uh, the,
1145
00:53:43.665 --> 00:53:45.845
the chorus, you know, whether it's the, the the ma
1146
00:53:45.945 --> 00:53:47.125
or the certificate program?
1147
00:53:48.065 --> 00:53:50.165
And they're always surprised that
1148
00:53:50.885 --> 00:53:52.085
I say that at the beginning.
1149
00:53:52.505 --> 00:53:57.165
We start learning about systems thinking. Oh, really? Yeah.
1150
00:53:57.165 --> 00:53:58.725
And systems thinking, you know, you, for
1151
00:53:58.965 --> 00:53:59.885
Somebody who has no idea what that is,
1152
00:53:59.885 --> 00:54:01.125
what the hell a systems thinking.
1153
00:54:01.305 --> 00:54:02.605
No, seriously. Like for somebody
1154
00:54:02.605 --> 00:54:03.765
who's like, what systems thinking.
1155
00:54:03.765 --> 00:54:05.645
Yeah. So, so systems thinking is, um,
1156
00:54:06.615 --> 00:54:10.205
about looking at things as holes.
1157
00:54:11.105 --> 00:54:14.125
So looking at the system rather than the symptom. Oh.
1158
00:54:14.185 --> 00:54:16.085
So looking at the system, whether it's a,
1159
00:54:16.085 --> 00:54:17.245
an organization is a system.
1160
00:54:17.425 --> 00:54:19.725
Yep. The human body is a system.
1161
00:54:20.435 --> 00:54:22.885
It's a system of, you know, cells and organs.
1162
00:54:23.545 --> 00:54:28.125
Um, a system is all about interconnectedness.
1163
00:54:28.525 --> 00:54:31.765
Hmm. And the key in a system is
1164
00:54:31.785 --> 00:54:33.765
to find leverage points.
1165
00:54:34.075 --> 00:54:36.285
Okay, where do I press, where do I touch
1166
00:54:36.545 --> 00:54:37.925
to affect the entire system?
1167
00:54:38.465 --> 00:54:40.445
You know, it's what Charles Duhig talks about,
1168
00:54:40.445 --> 00:54:41.485
you know, keystone habits.
1169
00:54:41.515 --> 00:54:43.125
Yeah, yeah. What is that place?
1170
00:54:43.425 --> 00:54:45.925
One thing that if you do will impact
1171
00:54:45.925 --> 00:54:46.965
another part of the system.
1172
00:54:47.065 --> 00:54:49.445
And another part is it exercising daily?
1173
00:54:49.945 --> 00:54:52.925
Is it, you know, starting your day, you know, zone one
1174
00:54:52.985 --> 00:54:56.285
of the day with, uh, deep breaths, right?
1175
00:54:56.845 --> 00:55:00.165
A meditation, is it, um, you know, leaving home
1176
00:55:00.165 --> 00:55:02.805
and, you know, hugging your, your your loved one.
1177
00:55:03.515 --> 00:55:04.645
What is that one thing?
1178
00:55:05.105 --> 00:55:06.925
And when everything is interconnected,
1179
00:55:07.345 --> 00:55:09.165
it actually doesn't matter that much
1180
00:55:09.295 --> 00:55:10.485
where you enter the system
1181
00:55:10.485 --> 00:55:11.925
because it'll affect everyone else.
1182
00:55:12.515 --> 00:55:17.205
This is why the emphasis on that one small action is
1183
00:55:17.205 --> 00:55:19.885
so critical, because you can literally sit down
1184
00:55:19.985 --> 00:55:21.685
and think for years about
1185
00:55:21.685 --> 00:55:23.965
how I'm gonna change my life. Or you can just do it.
1186
00:55:24.825 --> 00:55:27.565
You know, what is so cool about this is that
1187
00:55:29.615 --> 00:55:32.975
visually speaking, between the rainbow example
1188
00:55:33.235 --> 00:55:35.975
and this idea of systems and wholeness
1189
00:55:36.035 --> 00:55:39.015
and everything being interconnected in this model,
1190
00:55:40.095 --> 00:55:43.775
traumatic experiences are connected to happiness, sadness
1191
00:55:43.955 --> 00:55:46.295
and grief are connected to happiness.
1192
00:55:47.215 --> 00:55:50.255
Struggles and periods of feeling lost are
1193
00:55:51.015 --> 00:55:53.335
profoundly connected to happiness. Why?
1194
00:55:54.205 --> 00:55:57.415
Painful experiences, difficult experiences are inevitable.
1195
00:55:57.715 --> 00:55:59.135
Yes. Again, there is no life exemplary.
1196
00:55:59.135 --> 00:56:01.495
But let, let's play a, a game. Okay?
1197
00:56:01.665 --> 00:56:04.855
Let's imagine that sometime in the future,
1198
00:56:05.035 --> 00:56:07.815
and by the way, this, right now it's a, it's a theory,
1199
00:56:08.315 --> 00:56:11.255
but it could become a reality sometime in the future will
1200
00:56:11.255 --> 00:56:14.175
have the ability to
1201
00:56:14.825 --> 00:56:16.615
drive away all pain
1202
00:56:16.645 --> 00:56:20.215
because we'll have such great control over our neurons
1203
00:56:20.485 --> 00:56:25.365
that we'll be able to control what we feel all the time.
1204
00:56:26.145 --> 00:56:27.605
So, you know, in, um, in, uh,
1205
00:56:27.705 --> 00:56:28.705
Why would you wanna do that?
1206
00:56:29.475 --> 00:56:31.405
Well, why would you want to do it?
1207
00:56:31.515 --> 00:56:34.245
Many people would, especially when they're in the midst
1208
00:56:34.545 --> 00:56:36.605
of hardship and difficulty, you know,
1209
00:56:36.605 --> 00:56:38.205
all you want is for it to go away.
1210
00:56:38.505 --> 00:56:42.005
Or what if you see your loved one, your, your child in pain?
1211
00:56:42.575 --> 00:56:44.005
Maybe you can make it go away.
1212
00:56:44.765 --> 00:56:46.565
I just got something from you.
1213
00:56:46.745 --> 00:56:49.915
Do tell.
The reason why I had that reaction,
1214
00:56:51.625 --> 00:56:52.665
I realized is
1215
00:56:52.665 --> 00:56:55.685
because I have the belief that pain disappears
1216
00:56:56.405 --> 00:56:57.655
with time. The
1217
00:56:57.655 --> 00:56:58.655
Hope.
1218
00:56:58.655 --> 00:57:00.295
Yes.
Whoa.
1219
00:57:00.915 --> 00:57:03.895
And what if someone is, um, doesn't have that? Yes.
1220
00:57:03.915 --> 00:57:05.495
And what if, and again, many people,
1221
00:57:05.685 --> 00:57:07.135
many people will make it go away.
1222
00:57:07.175 --> 00:57:10.415
I mean, if you think about it, why are we so, um,
1223
00:57:10.515 --> 00:57:14.575
as a culture so obsessed with, uh, with those pills?
1224
00:57:15.365 --> 00:57:17.345
And again, I'm not against psychiatric medication
1225
00:57:17.345 --> 00:57:19.425
and sometimes it has saved lives.
1226
00:57:19.925 --> 00:57:22.385
And I know some cases intimately where, where yes,
1227
00:57:22.385 --> 00:57:25.385
where it has, however, we're too, um,
1228
00:57:25.415 --> 00:57:28.545
trigger happy when it comes to dispensing pills.
1229
00:57:29.045 --> 00:57:30.505
Why? Because we wanna make it go away.
1230
00:57:31.685 --> 00:57:34.225
So if we play this theoretical game that we do get
1231
00:57:34.225 --> 00:57:36.705
to a world where no side effects,
1232
00:57:36.735 --> 00:57:38.305
because we know exactly how
1233
00:57:38.305 --> 00:57:42.665
to make these painful experiences disappear, would we do it?
1234
00:57:42.665 --> 00:57:43.785
But then what would happen?
1235
00:57:44.255 --> 00:57:47.385
I've often asked my students this, think about
1236
00:57:48.505 --> 00:57:50.965
the experiences that you are most grateful for in terms
1237
00:57:50.965 --> 00:57:52.005
of where you are today.
1238
00:57:52.005 --> 00:57:53.645
Things where you have learned the most,
1239
00:57:53.645 --> 00:57:54.925
that have helped you grow the most.
1240
00:57:55.135 --> 00:57:57.605
Think about them. Now, put your hand up.
1241
00:57:57.625 --> 00:58:00.645
If there were fun experiences, enjoyable ones,
1242
00:58:00.835 --> 00:58:02.205
very few people put their hand up.
1243
00:58:02.235 --> 00:58:04.725
It's almost always difficult experiences.
1244
00:58:05.625 --> 00:58:07.285
Now, do you want to do away with that?
1245
00:58:07.945 --> 00:58:11.045
Do you want to get rid of growth and learning?
1246
00:58:11.345 --> 00:58:14.405
And this is exactly what will happen if we don't have any
1247
00:58:14.405 --> 00:58:15.645
of these painful experiences.
1248
00:58:15.705 --> 00:58:17.565
So when you say they're a part
1249
00:58:17.565 --> 00:58:21.765
and parcel of a happy life, they're essential to a full
1250
00:58:21.825 --> 00:58:23.165
and fulfilling life.
1251
00:58:24.145 --> 00:58:28.045
And when we begin to look at these experiences as such,
1252
00:58:28.635 --> 00:58:31.445
then our reaction can be similar to what you said.
1253
00:58:31.825 --> 00:58:32.965
And I don't wanna get rid of them.
1254
00:58:33.225 --> 00:58:36.605
In fact, I embrace, I don't enjoy them , but I embrace them.
1255
00:58:37.115 --> 00:58:40.645
Well, and what you're also offering is a roadmap
1256
00:58:40.705 --> 00:58:42.205
of hope and action.
1257
00:58:42.425 --> 00:58:44.525
For anybody who's in the thick of that, who's like,
1258
00:58:44.525 --> 00:58:47.285
give me the pill because I just lost my child.
1259
00:58:47.425 --> 00:58:51.565
Mm-Hmm. . And there is, I don't wanna feel what I'm feeling.
1260
00:58:52.745 --> 00:58:56.245
And what you are saying is that
1261
00:58:57.095 --> 00:59:00.565
based on the human experience from the beginning of time,
1262
00:59:01.345 --> 00:59:03.205
we are designed to move through these things.
1263
00:59:04.095 --> 00:59:08.565
These emotional, painful, traumatic experiences are
1264
00:59:09.125 --> 00:59:10.445
a moment in your life.
1265
00:59:10.905 --> 00:59:12.965
And that if you look at that rainbow
1266
00:59:13.745 --> 00:59:17.045
and you look at spiritual, physical, intellectual,
1267
00:59:17.055 --> 00:59:21.085
relational, or emotional wellness for yourself,
1268
00:59:21.945 --> 00:59:26.885
and you take this MVI model of minimum viable intervention,
1269
00:59:27.385 --> 00:59:28.525
and you say to yourself,
1270
00:59:29.235 --> 00:59:31.185
there it can, two things can be true.
1271
00:59:31.255 --> 00:59:32.985
This can be the worst thing that's ever happened
1272
00:59:32.985 --> 00:59:34.585
to me in the deepest pain I've ever felt.
1273
00:59:35.445 --> 00:59:37.865
And I can wake up in the morning
1274
00:59:38.525 --> 00:59:40.625
and I can pick one of those categories
1275
00:59:41.325 --> 00:59:44.905
and I can take one action in the spire
1276
00:59:44.905 --> 00:59:46.625
model forward.
1277
00:59:47.325 --> 00:59:51.225
And that is a way to start to move through this
1278
00:59:51.725 --> 00:59:55.465
and experience that wholeness that you're talking about,
1279
00:59:55.735 --> 00:59:58.065
even though it's so difficult.
1280
01:00:00.205 --> 01:00:02.625
Yes. And, and you know, Mel,
1281
01:00:02.665 --> 01:00:04.265
I I wanna share a story, please.
1282
01:00:04.485 --> 01:00:08.535
Um, when I was 27, um,
1283
01:00:09.375 --> 01:00:11.735
I lost the most important person in my
1284
01:00:11.735 --> 01:00:13.055
life to me at the time.
1285
01:00:13.115 --> 01:00:17.535
It was, uh, a dear, dear friend who died in a plane crash.
1286
01:00:18.515 --> 01:00:20.535
Uh, this was when I was living in, in Asia.
1287
01:00:20.555 --> 01:00:23.375
It was a plane from Indonesia to, to Singapore.
1288
01:00:24.235 --> 01:00:26.935
And, uh, it crashed was the 19th of, uh,
1289
01:00:28.295 --> 01:00:29.495
December, 1997.
1290
01:00:31.155 --> 01:00:34.415
And, um, I thought my life had ended at that moment.
1291
01:00:34.755 --> 01:00:37.855
You know, we were, uh, we were supposed to meet in Singapore
1292
01:00:38.035 --> 01:00:40.775
and, and, and it didn't happen.
1293
01:00:42.035 --> 01:00:46.655
And, um, I called up, uh, a mentor of mine, his name,
1294
01:00:46.835 --> 01:00:48.575
uh, is, uh, Nathaniel Brandon.
1295
01:00:48.685 --> 01:00:50.135
Nathaniel. Brandon has, uh,
1296
01:00:50.135 --> 01:00:51.735
written many books on self-esteem.
1297
01:00:51.795 --> 01:00:53.215
I'd learned, uh, with him.
1298
01:00:53.995 --> 01:00:55.455
And I called him up for two reasons.
1299
01:00:55.735 --> 01:00:57.615
A, because he was my teacher and mentor.
1300
01:00:58.835 --> 01:01:02.735
And, and b because he himself had lost, uh, he lost a, uh,
1301
01:01:02.735 --> 01:01:05.935
his wife in a freak drowning accident when he was
1302
01:01:05.935 --> 01:01:07.855
around a bit older than I was at the time.
1303
01:01:09.155 --> 01:01:11.215
And I called him up crying,
1304
01:01:11.875 --> 01:01:14.255
and, uh, he knew, he knew my friends.
1305
01:01:14.515 --> 01:01:16.495
So, uh, you know, he was, he was, he was
1306
01:01:17.245 --> 01:01:18.695
very much distressed as well.
1307
01:01:19.155 --> 01:01:21.415
And he said, Hal, I'm gonna tell you something now
1308
01:01:22.085 --> 01:01:23.775
that you are not going to understand,
1309
01:01:24.675 --> 01:01:25.975
but keep it in mind anyway.
1310
01:01:27.245 --> 01:01:29.725
He said, you are gonna get over this.
1311
01:01:31.565 --> 01:01:34.615
It's gonna be painful. It's going to hurt like hell,
1312
01:01:34.635 --> 01:01:36.135
but you are going to get over it.
1313
01:01:37.945 --> 01:01:41.925
We all do. Because if we hadn't, then God help us all.
1314
01:01:44.655 --> 01:01:48.475
And again, this was many, many years ago.
1315
01:01:48.515 --> 01:01:50.155
I still remember it, and I remember it each time,
1316
01:01:50.155 --> 01:01:53.795
even when I go through minor, uh, crisis,
1317
01:01:54.705 --> 01:01:56.195
because we do get over it
1318
01:01:56.195 --> 01:01:59.555
because we're built to overcome hardship and difficulties.
1319
01:01:59.555 --> 01:02:02.155
And sometimes it takes longer, sometimes, you know, it's,
1320
01:02:02.155 --> 01:02:05.655
it's, it's a day, but we do get over it.
1321
01:02:05.675 --> 01:02:07.335
And having that hope Hmm.
1322
01:02:07.435 --> 01:02:11.775
And doing something with it again, not staying in moping
1323
01:02:11.795 --> 01:02:15.175
and, and ruminating writing about it, talking about it,
1324
01:02:15.175 --> 01:02:19.725
doing small things, that is the way out of it.
1325
01:02:21.495 --> 01:02:23.325
Thank you for sharing that.
1326
01:02:23.635 --> 01:02:26.045
Like, I, I, I was trying to put myself in your shoes
1327
01:02:26.045 --> 01:02:28.005
because I think in the depths of that moment,
1328
01:02:28.185 --> 01:02:29.645
I'd probably be like, fuck you.
1329
01:02:29.665 --> 01:02:30.685
You know, I don't wanna hear that.
1330
01:02:30.785 --> 01:02:32.725
I'm not getting over the . You know what I'm saying?
1331
01:02:32.825 --> 01:02:36.165
But it, it is true
1332
01:02:37.425 --> 01:02:40.995
that we do get through the things that we never think
1333
01:02:41.465 --> 01:02:42.835
that it's possible to get through.
1334
01:02:43.215 --> 01:02:44.355
And I'm also really curious,
1335
01:02:44.405 --> 01:02:46.835
since you're constantly researching something
1336
01:02:47.135 --> 01:02:50.275
and clearly writing a book, and you've got an academy
1337
01:02:50.895 --> 01:02:52.915
and you are teaching people around the world,
1338
01:02:53.615 --> 01:02:56.155
is there a particular piece of research
1339
01:02:56.615 --> 01:02:58.835
or new kind of finding
1340
01:02:58.935 --> 01:03:01.275
around happiness that really excites you? Mm-Hmm.
1341
01:03:02.175 --> 01:03:05.315
So what I think about a lot is
1342
01:03:05.655 --> 01:03:07.515
how do you bring about lasting change?
1343
01:03:07.575 --> 01:03:09.635
Mm-Hmm. Because, you know, people are listening to us now
1344
01:03:09.735 --> 01:03:11.755
and they're thinking, oh yeah, you know, I, I wanna do it.
1345
01:03:11.755 --> 01:03:12.955
Or, you know, I would give a lecture
1346
01:03:13.055 --> 01:03:15.555
and, you know, the audience would think, yeah, I'm, I'm,
1347
01:03:15.555 --> 01:03:17.035
you know, I'm going to implement it.
1348
01:03:17.035 --> 01:03:19.675
But most times nothing happens.
1349
01:03:20.125 --> 01:03:22.355
Right.
Most change efforts.
1350
01:03:22.495 --> 01:03:25.635
You know, you talk about it, you know, coming into 2024,
1351
01:03:26.215 --> 01:03:27.915
so you have a, a, a goal
1352
01:03:27.975 --> 01:03:29.075
and, you know, a 30 day
1353
01:03:29.075 --> 01:03:30.555
challenge , you know, in January, February.
1354
01:03:30.745 --> 01:03:34.035
What happens with that? Usually not much. Yep.
1355
01:03:34.135 --> 01:03:35.635
So, what I think about constantly
1356
01:03:35.635 --> 01:03:37.755
and what I'm researching is how can you
1357
01:03:38.355 --> 01:03:39.875
increase the likelihood, not guarantee,
1358
01:03:39.875 --> 01:03:41.155
but increase the likelihood
1359
01:03:42.225 --> 01:03:44.315
that you will enjoy lasting change.
1360
01:03:45.415 --> 01:03:48.435
And, um, you know, I love acronyms as you figure it out.
1361
01:03:48.435 --> 01:03:51.395
You know, the spire, MVI, so here's the third acronym.
1362
01:03:51.505 --> 01:03:53.795
Give it to us. The three Rs.
1363
01:03:54.215 --> 01:03:55.515
The three Rs, okay. Okay.
1364
01:03:55.515 --> 01:03:57.755
And we can use this with everything
1365
01:03:57.755 --> 01:04:01.675
that you've taught us today in terms of making
1366
01:04:02.525 --> 01:04:05.955
being happier, a lasting change
1367
01:04:05.975 --> 01:04:07.115
in your life. Exactly. Okay.
1368
01:04:07.115 --> 01:04:08.835
So that's why the three r, that that's, that's why it's
1369
01:04:08.855 --> 01:04:11.195
so important for me to, to think about it,
1370
01:04:11.315 --> 01:04:12.475
write about it, talk about it.
1371
01:04:12.735 --> 01:04:16.075
The three Rs of change are essentially the, um, you know,
1372
01:04:16.075 --> 01:04:18.235
should be the intel inside, so to speak,
1373
01:04:18.415 --> 01:04:20.555
of every, uh, change effort.
1374
01:04:20.665 --> 01:04:21.715
Okay. So what are they?
1375
01:04:21.715 --> 01:04:25.115
It's not reading, writing in arithmetic, other three Rs.
1376
01:04:25.305 --> 01:04:29.635
It's the first R is reminder. I mean, think about it, Mel.
1377
01:04:29.935 --> 01:04:33.835
So if I asked you this, um, tell me, is it important for you
1378
01:04:33.975 --> 01:04:38.315
to, um, appreciate the good people in your life,
1379
01:04:39.055 --> 01:04:43.155
um, to, uh, to appreciate whatever works in your life?
1380
01:04:43.175 --> 01:04:44.515
Or do you prefer to take it all for granted?
1381
01:04:45.195 --> 01:04:46.915
, I appreciate it. Exactly.
1382
01:04:46.935 --> 01:04:48.875
So, you know, no one would say, know I've had enough
1383
01:04:48.875 --> 01:04:50.195
of appreciating my loved ones.
1384
01:04:50.195 --> 01:04:51.515
It's time to take them for granted.
1385
01:04:51.575 --> 01:04:53.995
For a, for a while. , no one would say that ,
1386
01:04:54.815 --> 01:04:56.155
Except for my husband in therapy.
1387
01:04:56.215 --> 01:04:57.215
Mm-Hmm. ,
1388
01:04:58.865 --> 01:04:59.875
that who shall pass.
1389
01:05:00.615 --> 01:05:02.355
So, and yet,
1390
01:05:02.455 --> 01:05:04.835
and yet, even though everyone would say, it's important
1391
01:05:04.835 --> 01:05:08.315
for me to appreciate most people, this is an empirical fact.
1392
01:05:08.505 --> 01:05:09.675
Most people, most
1393
01:05:09.675 --> 01:05:13.035
of the time take the good things in their lives for granted.
1394
01:05:13.225 --> 01:05:16.075
True. Do not appreciate their loved ones most of the time.
1395
01:05:16.105 --> 01:05:17.620
True. Most people, most of the time.
1396
01:05:17.785 --> 01:05:20.365
Now, it's not because they're bad people, it's not
1397
01:05:20.365 --> 01:05:23.805
because they are not smart, it's not
1398
01:05:23.805 --> 01:05:24.925
because they don't have the desire
1399
01:05:24.945 --> 01:05:27.005
to appreciate all these things are in place.
1400
01:05:28.025 --> 01:05:29.685
The problem is that we forget,
1401
01:05:31.175 --> 01:05:34.045
which is why the first antidote to
1402
01:05:36.085 --> 01:05:39.815
forgetfulness, or the first antidote to the absence
1403
01:05:39.995 --> 01:05:42.655
of change, is reminders.
1404
01:05:42.875 --> 01:05:44.135
Yes. And Mel, you talk about it,
1405
01:05:44.135 --> 01:05:46.295
you talk about your post-Its Yes, I love that.
1406
01:05:46.355 --> 01:05:48.055
Create reminders around you.
1407
01:05:48.085 --> 01:05:51.175
Whether it's post-its whether it's, um, you know, walking
1408
01:05:51.175 --> 01:05:54.055
around with, uh, with a bracelet that reminds me of some
1409
01:05:54.055 --> 01:05:55.215
of, of something specific
1410
01:05:55.435 --> 01:05:56.435
Or a rainbow.
1411
01:05:56.435 --> 01:05:59.415
Like, I keep thinking about how much you've poured into us
1412
01:05:59.435 --> 01:06:01.015
and how actionable everything is.
1413
01:06:01.675 --> 01:06:03.815
And understandable that even if you were
1414
01:06:03.815 --> 01:06:05.415
to write on a post-it spire,
1415
01:06:06.035 --> 01:06:08.775
and it's a reminder of the five elements every morning,
1416
01:06:08.775 --> 01:06:11.415
and you pop it on your mirror at your computer at work,
1417
01:06:11.645 --> 01:06:13.015
like now it's in your face.
1418
01:06:13.795 --> 01:06:17.255
And that's more likely with the reminder
1419
01:06:17.915 --> 01:06:20.335
to help you go to the next star, which is what,
1420
01:06:22.405 --> 01:06:23.555
Which is repetition.
1421
01:06:23.705 --> 01:06:26.675
Because one or two reminders one day,
1422
01:06:26.675 --> 01:06:27.795
second day, not enough.
1423
01:06:28.095 --> 01:06:29.995
Yep. We need repetition.
1424
01:06:30.295 --> 01:06:32.395
We need to do it over and over and over again.
1425
01:06:32.475 --> 01:06:34.315
And for that you need many reminders.
1426
01:06:34.375 --> 01:06:36.875
So for example, a recurring function on your,
1427
01:06:37.215 --> 01:06:38.395
you know, on your calendar.
1428
01:06:38.975 --> 01:06:40.795
Yep. You know, every Monday, Wednesday,
1429
01:06:40.795 --> 01:06:41.995
and Friday, I'm in the gym.
1430
01:06:42.255 --> 01:06:44.675
Yep. And after you have repetition
1431
01:06:44.735 --> 01:06:46.595
and you have enough of it, that is when we get
1432
01:06:46.595 --> 01:06:49.395
to the third R, which is rituals.
1433
01:06:49.825 --> 01:06:51.875
What are rituals? Rituals are actually
1434
01:06:52.415 --> 01:06:55.155
deeply embedded neural pathways
1435
01:06:56.265 --> 01:06:57.875
that when we repeat an action over
1436
01:06:57.875 --> 01:07:00.155
and over again, that action becomes automatic.
1437
01:07:00.155 --> 01:07:02.275
Because neural pathways have been formed,
1438
01:07:03.615 --> 01:07:06.715
our brain has quite literally been transformed
1439
01:07:07.385 --> 01:07:09.075
through the repetitive action.
1440
01:07:10.335 --> 01:07:14.235
Simple example, mom reminded me to brush my teeth. Yeah.
1441
01:07:14.305 --> 01:07:16.115
Over and over again. Yeah. Repetitively.
1442
01:07:16.835 --> 01:07:18.395
I don't need mom anymore to re remind me.
1443
01:07:18.475 --> 01:07:19.795
'cause it's a ritual, right?
1444
01:07:20.265 --> 01:07:22.595
It's the same with the cultivating a, you know, a,
1445
01:07:22.675 --> 01:07:23.715
a, a tennis forehand.
1446
01:07:24.465 --> 01:07:27.755
Initially the coach reminds me, you get your, your hand up,
1447
01:07:27.755 --> 01:07:29.475
you know, meet the ball here, right?
1448
01:07:29.495 --> 01:07:30.995
And you do it again and again. Right?
1449
01:07:31.135 --> 01:07:33.075
And then you wake up Serena Williams in the middle
1450
01:07:33.075 --> 01:07:34.915
of the night, she'll hit that forehand .
1451
01:07:35.195 --> 01:07:37.555
I, that's true perfectly. Because it's a ritual, right?
1452
01:07:37.555 --> 01:07:39.315
It's a habit. There are neural pathways
1453
01:07:39.315 --> 01:07:40.395
associated with that.
1454
01:07:40.905 --> 01:07:44.635
Whether it's for hugging your loved ones, whether it's
1455
01:07:44.635 --> 01:07:48.075
for acts of kindness, we can actually ritualize them.
1456
01:07:48.215 --> 01:07:50.955
Now, to many people, this, this sounds like, you know,
1457
01:07:50.955 --> 01:07:52.875
the absence of spontaneity, you know,
1458
01:07:52.875 --> 01:07:53.955
if you ritualize things,
1459
01:07:54.335 --> 01:07:55.955
I'm not against spontaneity, it's great.
1460
01:07:56.095 --> 01:07:59.155
But if you want to bring about lasting change, the only
1461
01:07:59.755 --> 01:08:04.275
reliable way that we know about is by cultivating rituals.
1462
01:08:04.735 --> 01:08:07.435
And you do that through reminders and repetition.
1463
01:08:07.665 --> 01:08:11.875
Well, and there's a fourth r do tell, which is the fact
1464
01:08:11.875 --> 01:08:13.595
that it's not about the fact
1465
01:08:13.595 --> 01:08:14.875
that you're removing spontaneity,
1466
01:08:14.985 --> 01:08:17.845
you're removing something else, your resistance Mm-Hmm.
1467
01:08:18.265 --> 01:08:19.445
To doing something new.
1468
01:08:19.745 --> 01:08:23.565
And if I bring this full circle to, um,
1469
01:08:24.945 --> 01:08:28.165
the topic of being a happier you,
1470
01:08:29.305 --> 01:08:33.085
and the fact that in your definition of wholeness
1471
01:08:33.665 --> 01:08:37.125
and the five elements of happiness, which all tie to
1472
01:08:38.395 --> 01:08:42.525
wellbeing, that you could apply
1473
01:08:43.505 --> 01:08:47.685
the reminder, the repetition over and over
1474
01:08:47.705 --> 01:08:50.245
and over in each of those five elements, going to church,
1475
01:08:50.585 --> 01:08:53.485
or to temple, or to mosque,
1476
01:08:53.585 --> 01:08:57.485
or if your church version is taking a walk in the woods,
1477
01:08:58.465 --> 01:09:01.405
making that something that you repeat so
1478
01:09:01.435 --> 01:09:04.685
that it becomes a ritual that these things,
1479
01:09:04.905 --> 01:09:09.245
and I'm suspecting that this is why you are
1480
01:09:09.825 --> 01:09:13.325
an unwavering optimist in
1481
01:09:13.925 --> 01:09:17.215
people's ability, absolutely.
1482
01:09:17.655 --> 01:09:20.735
Anyone's ability to be happier. Mm-Hmm. ,
1483
01:09:21.955 --> 01:09:25.995
You know, TALEN Keller, who's one of my teachers,
1484
01:09:26.735 --> 01:09:31.395
has an essay on optimism, which I highly recommend, uh,
1485
01:09:31.395 --> 01:09:32.955
that, that, that you read.
1486
01:09:33.455 --> 01:09:38.275
And, um, in it, she says, my religion is optimism.
1487
01:09:39.775 --> 01:09:42.875
And she says, I look around metaphorically, I look
1488
01:09:42.875 --> 01:09:44.355
around the world and, um,
1489
01:09:44.615 --> 01:09:48.075
and what I see is a lot of hardship and difficulty.
1490
01:09:48.505 --> 01:09:51.675
What I also see is the overcoming of it.
1491
01:09:53.015 --> 01:09:55.075
And she was a consummate optimist.
1492
01:09:55.115 --> 01:09:57.155
I mean, how could she have not been, you know,
1493
01:09:57.155 --> 01:09:59.795
given the hand that she was, uh, dealt
1494
01:10:00.095 --> 01:10:03.155
and she still lived a, a, a happy life, a full
1495
01:10:03.155 --> 01:10:04.395
and fulfilling life.
1496
01:10:04.735 --> 01:10:09.195
And I think there is a very important lesson that we can,
1497
01:10:09.215 --> 01:10:10.235
uh, learn from her.
1498
01:10:10.495 --> 01:10:12.555
And if I may, I just wanna recommend something else
1499
01:10:12.615 --> 01:10:13.795
by Helen Keller, please.
1500
01:10:14.055 --> 01:10:18.875
So the essay on optimism, the second one is an essay
1501
01:10:18.875 --> 01:10:23.615
that she wrote called Three Days to See In it,
1502
01:10:23.755 --> 01:10:26.615
she reflects on what she would do if, you know, having been,
1503
01:10:26.915 --> 01:10:30.255
um, blind and deaf for most of her life.
1504
01:10:30.485 --> 01:10:34.015
What would she do if she were to regain her hearing
1505
01:10:34.355 --> 01:10:35.455
or vision?
1506
01:10:35.765 --> 01:10:37.095
What would she do for three days?
1507
01:10:37.835 --> 01:10:39.255
And she talks about it and she talks about
1508
01:10:39.255 --> 01:10:41.575
how important it is to appreciate, not take
1509
01:10:41.595 --> 01:10:43.815
for granted the things that we have.
1510
01:10:43.815 --> 01:10:48.095
And I have Helen Keller's essay Next to Me is a reminder.
1511
01:10:48.895 --> 01:10:50.615
A reminder, a to appreciate
1512
01:10:51.195 --> 01:10:55.135
and as a reminder, uh, of the religion of optimism.
1513
01:10:56.155 --> 01:11:00.775
Wow. Wow. Dr. Tall Ben Shahar.
1514
01:11:00.985 --> 01:11:03.575
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
1515
01:11:04.435 --> 01:11:06.175
You are really, really good at what you do.
1516
01:11:07.645 --> 01:11:08.645
I, I, I know, you know,
1517
01:11:08.665 --> 01:11:12.405
but I mean, it's like so fun to spend time with somebody
1518
01:11:12.585 --> 01:11:14.485
who is so smart
1519
01:11:15.145 --> 01:11:19.685
and who has a beautiful way of explaining topics
1520
01:11:19.835 --> 01:11:22.325
that are kind of hard to wrap your brain around.
1521
01:11:23.105 --> 01:11:26.925
And, uh, I just really appreciate the, the time
1522
01:11:27.305 --> 01:11:28.845
and I appreciate the way
1523
01:11:28.845 --> 01:11:30.645
that you think about things and explain things.
1524
01:11:31.145 --> 01:11:32.765
You made a huge difference in my life,
1525
01:11:32.825 --> 01:11:36.205
and I know that you just made an enormous difference in
1526
01:11:36.395 --> 01:11:40.795
helping people around the world be happier.
1527
01:11:41.765 --> 01:11:44.675
Thank you, Mel. And what I'm most grateful for in terms
1528
01:11:44.675 --> 01:11:47.995
of your work, is that you create a bridge between
1529
01:11:48.595 --> 01:11:51.675
evidence-based, uh, academic ideas,
1530
01:11:51.855 --> 01:11:53.155
and you make them accessible.
1531
01:11:53.615 --> 01:11:57.395
Oh, that's a massive compliment coming from you.
1532
01:11:57.675 --> 01:12:00.075
I accept that. Thank you. Thank you.
1533
01:12:00.135 --> 01:12:02.315
And for you listening, I just wanted to be sure,
1534
01:12:02.335 --> 01:12:03.995
in case nobody else tells you that.
1535
01:12:04.195 --> 01:12:07.235
I tell you that I love you and I believe in you,
1536
01:12:07.975 --> 01:12:09.675
and I know I speak for both of us.
1537
01:12:09.745 --> 01:12:12.555
When I say we believe in your ability
1538
01:12:13.415 --> 01:12:14.835
to take action
1539
01:12:15.455 --> 01:12:18.035
and do the little things every single day
1540
01:12:18.225 --> 01:12:20.995
that will bring more happiness into your life.
1541
01:12:21.295 --> 01:12:23.035
Now go do it. I'll talk to you in a few days.
1542
01:12:29.925 --> 01:12:31.345
Are you guys ready for us? Yeah, yeah.
1543
01:12:31.475 --> 01:12:36.345
Sorry, we just on, here we go. Our cameras rolling.
1544
01:12:36.545 --> 01:12:37.745
I should probably wait in case I
1545
01:12:37.745 --> 01:12:38.865
say something and just audio.
1546
01:12:39.295 --> 01:12:41.505
Okay, I'm on. Great.
1547
01:12:41.605 --> 01:12:44.345
And as soon as the tele the audio all audio only.
1548
01:12:45.245 --> 01:12:46.745
You know what? Do you guys have a cloth
1549
01:12:46.745 --> 01:12:48.305
for these things? I don't know about your glasses.
1550
01:12:48.845 --> 01:12:51.185
always. It's
Like, how the hell do they get so dirty? ?
1551
01:12:51.805 --> 01:12:52.705
Do you think we touch our
1552
01:12:52.705 --> 01:12:54.105
glasses a lot? We don't realize it.
1553
01:12:54.925 --> 01:12:57.625
We do.
Around the world. Do you hear that
1554
01:12:57.625 --> 01:12:58.625
Again?
1555
01:12:58.625 --> 01:13:00.225
I think it was just that one. That one I think. But
1556
01:13:00.725 --> 01:13:03.545
You, you, I know you, you know, do you hear that?
1557
01:13:06.485 --> 01:13:07.745
Um, we're gonna keep going.
1558
01:13:08.525 --> 01:13:09.625
The thing that I found ,
1559
01:13:12.975 --> 01:13:14.625
This did not turn off. That one did
1560
01:13:14.685 --> 01:13:15.785
Not That one. That one did. Yeah,
1561
01:13:15.785 --> 01:13:16.785
That one it did.
1562
01:13:17.325 --> 01:13:19.025
Oh
Lord. Okay. This is hilarious.
1563
01:13:19.265 --> 01:13:23.105
I dunno if I should have stomped amazing iPhone .
1564
01:13:27.365 --> 01:13:28.985
So the,
1565
01:13:30.095 --> 01:13:31.095
That
Was good.
1566
01:13:31.095 --> 01:13:31.905
Sorry, just
1567
01:13:33.165 --> 01:13:34.165
Did it just turn off.
1568
01:13:35.215 --> 01:13:37.545
Awesome. Great Show High five.
1569
01:13:44.325 --> 01:13:45.585
Oh, and one more thing.
1570
01:13:45.825 --> 01:13:50.745
I know this is not a blooper , this is the legal language.
1571
01:13:50.925 --> 01:13:52.705
You know what the lawyers write
1572
01:13:52.805 --> 01:13:54.025
and what I need to read to you.
1573
01:13:54.695 --> 01:13:57.825
This podcast is presented solely for educational
1574
01:13:57.845 --> 01:13:59.505
and entertainment purposes.
1575
01:14:00.165 --> 01:14:01.185
I'm just your friend.
1576
01:14:01.785 --> 01:14:03.545
I am not a licensed therapist,
1577
01:14:03.645 --> 01:14:06.985
and this podcast is not intended as a substitute
1578
01:14:06.985 --> 01:14:09.545
for the advice of a physician, professional coach,
1579
01:14:09.725 --> 01:14:12.745
psychotherapist, or other qualified professional.
1580
01:14:13.205 --> 01:14:15.665
Got it. Good. I'll see you in the next episode,
1581
01:14:18.785 --> 01:14:19.345
Stitcher.