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Hey, it's Rachel Cook, your Modern Mentor.
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I'm the founder of Lead Above Noise,
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where we help leaders activate performance
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and engagement and dial back burnout.
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Whether it's boot camps, keynotes,
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or pulse checks, we help teams achieve meaningful change.
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If that's what your organization needs.
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Reach out today at,
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before we jump into today's episode,
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just a reminder to leave a review.
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If you can swing it, it helps new
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listeners to find the show.
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Okay, so today I'm excited
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to bring you this interview with Bonnie Davis.
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Bonnie and I have a shared passion
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around infusing more humanity into the workplace,
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but she has actually built an assessment around it, one
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that you can take today for free.
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We'll link to that in the show notes.
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In this conversation we talk about the role
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that organizations have to play in driving humanity at work,
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and we also talk about actions that we can take quick,
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simple, and meaningful at
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whatever altitude we're sitting at.
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There's lots of great insight here.
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I hope you enjoyed Bonnie Davis,
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co-founder of Hugh Work.
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What a pleasure it is to have you
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on the Modern Mentor Podcast. Thank you for being here.
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Hi Rachel. Thanks for asking me to join you today.
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No, I've been really looking forward to this conversation.
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You have done a lot of interesting work.
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I love following you being connected with you on LinkedIn.
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You have a lot of insights and a lot of wisdom,
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and I know a lot of it is gonna feel really tangible
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and practical for the listeners today.
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And so I am excited to dive in.
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Um, do you wanna start with just kind of the,
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the two sentence elevator pitch around what HU Work does?
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Only two sentences. No, I'm just kidding. .
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Yeah, I'd be happy to, well, I'll start with the name.
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So Hu Work, we got that as kind of a mashup
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of humans at work because we are really passionate
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about being human centered.
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So my business partner and I came from big careers, similar
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to you, big corporate careers didn't always feel like things
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were so human in terms of leadership practices and culture.
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And so that was our vision mission to show up
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and connect with companies to make sure that that changes.
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And so even to bring those words human-centered into their
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language, to give them tools to do that.
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So we do consulting, facilitation,
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and coaching that help make
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that a reality on the organization level,
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the team level and the leader level.
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And change is the theme in everything that we do.
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We both have a background in change management
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and a lot of passion for making change.
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That sticks.
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Beautiful. Thank you for that.
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And I would love to start,
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and we can go in lots of different directions,
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but I would love to start with the assessment
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that your organization has put out
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because I think think it does a really great job.
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Uh, I think a lot of people talk about this concept
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of more humanity in the workplace,
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and I think we mean that kind of generically,
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you know it when you see it, but I can't actually define it.
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And I think you've actually done some work
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to really put some meat on the bones of what that means.
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And so I would love if,
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if you could talk a little bit about the assessment and,
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and what it is grounded in.
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What does it mean to be human at work? Yeah,
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And this was so important to us
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because when we played around with, so a little bit
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of just transparent histories, so my business partner
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and I, we both had businesses going into joining
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forces to create he work.
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And so when we then thought about,
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and we were partnering on projects
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and we said, why not go to market together
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as a we instead of a me?
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For me personally, I have never in my life been athletic,
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always the last kid to pick, to be picked in gym class.
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But I started running in my adult life
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and the fir I finally started moving from like a wa a mile
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to a 5K and then half marathons by running with friends.
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And it's really when I moved from New York to Denver,
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I made closer friends through running
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and through meeting women that we'd run together with.
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So it was a lesson for me. Having buddies helped,
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being in partnership with people is something
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that really makes me happy.
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And when we decided to do that, I said, you know,
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this human-centered idea, it's getting kind of overused.
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And that was pre covid, that was like 2018.
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So now it's really getting overused.
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So I said we really need an assessment,
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as you said, to put some meat on the bones.
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And so it has seven focus areas.
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First of all, it's free, so if you have the ability
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to share the link, I encourage anybody to,
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We will have that link in the
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show notes. So thanks for that.
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Excellent. So there's seven pillars in the assessment.
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I will talk, go through all of them,
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but it's things like your, what are your purpose
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and values, your processes
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and rituals, what are the, is there a sense of community?
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What happens around growth and recognition and wellbeing?
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So those are some of the key areas.
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So each of those areas has about five
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or six questions and they're specific.
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They're meant to be action oriented questions to assess
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how is that going on your team or in your organization.
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And it's based on a combination of our experience working
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inside big companies, working with our clients,
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a whole bunch of research that we've done.
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I think like you, we are big readers of, you know,
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fast company, Harvard Business Review, listen to podcasts.
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So somehow all of that information gets like,
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like soup in your brain, , you know, a lot of ingredients.
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And we spent a lot of time to put it together.
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And we also, uh, we, we did it in 20, we talked about this
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for a while and then in 2020 when the world shut down
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and all of a sudden we had more time on our hands
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we're like, we're gonna finally do this.
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And so we did a lot of back and forth
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and then we ran it by people in our network
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who were in senior HR roles to say, what do you think?
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Just to get some feedback on it.
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And so when you take it, you answer the questions
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and then the output is a really wonderful visual.
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It's a spider diagram so you can really quickly see the
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highs and the lows and the in between.
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So the questions all wind up these seven areas.
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You can see it visually.
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Um, there's some lightweight tips in there.
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It's not gonna change your life,
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but there's some lightweight tips
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that you get in your report.
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And then we have been publishing a series
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of articles on LinkedIn.
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So right now we're about halfway through that series
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where each of those seven areas we are going deeper
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and we are providing quite a lot of actions and ideas
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and tips, also collecting case studies,
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some mini best practices from companies
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that are doing these things well.
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So it's, they really go together, the articles
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with the action and then the assessment to understand.
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And, and I really wanna also emphasize, we don't want you
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to just look at your problem areas to fix.
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We want you to get really clear on what your company
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and your culture and your leadership style or doing well
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because I am a strengths-based coach
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and I'm all for leaning into the good stuff
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and being more intentional about it and celebrating it.
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So it also gives you the highlights really
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Nice.
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Thank you. And I wanted, I wanna dig into what some
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of those actions and behaviors
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and some of those insights are.
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But before we get there, I just wanna ask, you know,
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as I look at the pillars in this assessment,
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they all sound sort of delightful.
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Um, but I'm curious if you ever experience any resistance
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from leaders who say, sure, purpose is important
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and culture is important,
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but it's really about results, Bonnie.
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And I'm not, I'm not looking
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to make my my company feel soft.
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I'm not looking to make it feel like people are on vacation.
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Um, right.
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I'm, I'm obviously loading this question
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'cause I hear resistance like this sometimes as well,
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but how do you talk to leaders who,
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who feel like a workplace culture
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that is too human is somehow not going to be
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as highly performing?
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Yeah, well it's a, it's, I totally agree.
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I think people that do the work
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that we do always get some form of that resistance.
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And um, I think when you have assessment results,
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the most successful leaders, they,
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they don't, they wanna win.
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They wanna score big.
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And so it's interesting to actually have the results
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and look and go, oh, well maybe
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that is a problem if we're scoring low on purpose
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and values for example, which is different than me saying,
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you know what you need to do in your company CEO,
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people need more empathy,
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they just need more empathy and compassion.
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And that's where you get kind
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of sometimes the eye roll and the pushback.
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But when they actually see data , they actually see a score,
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a lot of them get fired up.
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And I don't say, I wouldn't say you need to fix
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that 'cause it's low.
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Of course. As a coach,
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I'm gonna ask what's important about that for you?
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What are you noticing in your culture?
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And I'll say something like, the companies
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that you've been in that are most successful, tell me
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what having a sense of purpose and values has meant there.
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So it doesn't become a one size fits all solution.
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It becomes a, I'm gonna meet you where you are solution.
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If, if you don't want all those touchy feely soft things,
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then that's not gonna work.
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Because if you're not supportive of that stuff,
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then it's not gonna land for your company.
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So we find a version that works for them.
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And usually I haven't had the full pushback to be like,
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you know what we wanna do here,
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we wanna just get a bunch of robots.
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And I have to say, I think the buy-in for this has really
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improved, I'm gonna say in the last year or two
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because of ai there, even some of those leaders
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who were more about results and the operations and the stuff
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and not the people part are like, whoa,
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people are afraid the of the robots taking over.
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We're afraid of losing the human touch.
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Sometimes data helps with some of these leaders.
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You've seen it yourself.
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Trust is very low, loneliness is very high.
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So I think that people who were more like
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what you're describing are getting a little bit more afraid
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that they're, they need to do more to engage
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and motivate and take care of their people.
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Yeah. Noticing that, I'm curious, are you noticing that
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to you that it's,
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those conversations are easier now than maybe
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they were five years ago?
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I am starting to notice a little bit of a shift.
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I am feeling like the whole talent
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landscape has changed, right?
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And I think especially top talent these days has largely
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come to the conclusion that they can be more demanding
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of the experience they get at work.
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And people aren't generally as accepting of,
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well you get a paycheck, so deal with it and move on.
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And so I do think that more
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and more companies are recognizing that, you know,
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when you create a sense of belonging, when people feel part
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of a community that is your workplace,
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when they have connection, when they feel trust
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and safety so that they can speak their ideas, you know,
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not only does it make people loyal,
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but I also feel like leaders are
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recognizing we get better results.
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Like when our employees feel empowered to speak up,
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they're the ones on the front lines.
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They are often the ones who see the fractures in our system.
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They're the ones interfacing with our customers.
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They are the ones engaging with our technology.
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If I'm a leader sitting in the ivory tower,
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I don't know when something's broken.
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I don't know what's angering or frustrating our customers,
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but my employees on the front lines do.
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And so when they feel trust
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and safety enough to speak up,
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to raise a flag and say, you know what?
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I've noticed that this glitch has caused
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three customer complaints this week.
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Can we look into that?
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Creating a culture where people feel safe to speak,
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that it enhances results, right?
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It hits bottom and top line.
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And so I think the more that people like you
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and me can highlight those areas
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where it's not just about the human feeling in the human
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experience, but the human experience in service
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of better results, customer loyalty, more profit, I think
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that's where I think that's where we start to win.
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I agree. I think another pain point is return to office
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and a lot of leaders just feeling like
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just one exhausted from that topic,
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but two, like if there as a lot
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of cultures have become fully remote
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or hybrid, they are looking for new and different ways.
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And so having an assessment to understand where we at
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to fill those gaps that we feel like we suddenly have
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'cause we don't see each other all the time,
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that's been another driver to get people
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to pay more attention to the people side of their business.
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Absolutely. So you were
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very clear in that it's not a one size fits all sort
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of approach, right?
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And it is gonna be a very custom experience.
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That said, I assume there have to be some practices
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that you generally see be more commonly appreciated,
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maybe more successful than others.
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Specifically in this realm of kind of trust and connection
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and belonging and community.
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Are there any particular practices
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that have become favorites of yours
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that you have seen clients implement
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or that you've, um,
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just seen be successful in your corporate travels?
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Yeah, so I'm sure we could compare notes on our favorites,
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but, um, the first thing that comes to mind
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for me is companies that have rituals in place.
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And because people get a little bit overwhelmed
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of we don't have time and money for offsites
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and big training programs.
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And you know what, those are nice, but you
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and I have both seen those where they're one and done
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and they're not sustainable.
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And so this idea of having rituals, I mean as simple
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as team meetings and one-on-ones
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and if you are in person lunches at whatever intervals,
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but also just the way you can communicate.
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So in your team meetings, are you just going
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through the laundry list of the agenda items
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or are you creating white space for people
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to openly share when you've just come off of holidays,
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are you asking people about their traditions
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and giving them that ch chance for their voices to be heard
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and their unique parts of their lives to come through?
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Or are you just skating through and doing business as usual?
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So thinking about what are those rituals?
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And we, we have an article on rituals
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and processes that we have on LinkedIn.
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I think that's the, the foundational part.
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Do you do something for people's birthdays?
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Do, how do you celebrate success?
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You've just gotten a win and, and a customer win internal
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or external, what do you do?
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Do you, do you keep going or do you have ways
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to celebrate success?
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So collectively, you know, these might sound like really
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tactical, lightweight things one off,
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but collectively, when I think about the best teams I've
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been part of, they had these rituals where just this,
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the humanity came out.
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And the flip side is we see a lot of companies now
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where it's this like time scarcity to busy always on mindset
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and they're not slowing down for those things
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or even companies that are in the office.
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You see, you, this has become, believe it
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or not, a ritual of sorts
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of everyone you walk into an office, I had this last week,
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I was on flight with a client
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and everyone has headphones in.
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So they're not even like checking in to go,
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Hey, I have a quick question.
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What do you think of this? Or even, do you wanna grab lunch
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or, or chitchat on a Monday morning, you know, .
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So, so looking around and understanding both in person
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and virtual, what are the, the connection points that exist
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or are missing just for people to have And,
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and these, these ways of connecting.
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And it all comes down to relationships.
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And relationships mean better collaboration
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and all of that mean all
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of those business results that you talked about.
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So making sure that there's natural ways
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that people are building those relationships, communicating,
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collaborating, if you're doing those alone ,
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you're gonna be in much better shape
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than a lot of other companies. That's
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Great.
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I think those are all really powerful.
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I know I'm just gonna build on a couple of your ideas.
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You talked about the power of celebrating the big wins.
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If there's a customer win, do you pause?
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And I think that's super important.
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Um, I also really encourage my clients to
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not only focus on the big shiny wins,
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but also celebrating just the small acts of bravery,
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of courage, of sharing a new idea,
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asking a quote unquote dumb question that unlocks things.
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Right. I think a lot
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of companies have gotten reasonably good,
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I think at celebrating the big wins and the big milestones,
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but the more we can celebrate the behaviors
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that we wanna see repeated, um, seeing more of those types
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of celebrations to be really successful.
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I also really, like, I've had a couple
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of clients set up these kind of internal
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who's in today dashboards, you know,
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whether it lives on slack
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or some sort of shared drive so
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that if you're going into the office on a day,
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you know who's there and who's available for lunch.
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And maybe you even have a couple of your interests, um,
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you know, in a profile so that people can set up a lunch
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with you because they wanna talk about their favorite book
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or, you know, it doesn't
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necessarily have to be work related.
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So those are a couple of kind
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of connective rituals I've seen.
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To your point about, what did you call it? Time scarcity.
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Mm-hmm . That's a big problem. Never enough.
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Never enough, never enough. There's
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Never enough time.
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And yet what I'm also finding is
401
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when we say we don't have time, what we mean is
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that we can't fit the stuff we wanna do on top
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of the stuff that's already scheduled.
404
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What we're not as good about is really questioning
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what's already scheduled.
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Because I'm finding that there are so many just meetings
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that have been standing for, for years and years and years,
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and we're not questioning the value of those meetings.
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And so I love to tell my clients
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to take a a Marie Kondo approach, right?
411
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When you clean out your closet, you have to first empty it.
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You have to take everything off the calendar
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and then justify what goes back.
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Because I, I think you're right.
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It's, it's, we are so busy doing the things
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that it's hard to create the time.
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00:17:35.745 --> 00:17:39.885
And yet if we wanna have this human workplace, we have
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to be disciplined in, in creating that time. Yeah.
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And I'll, that doesn't have to take a lot of time.
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You know, I will tell people Monday morning,
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whether you're at the water cooler or on or on Zoom
422
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or on WebEx, first meeting of the day, what do you say?
423
00:17:56.985 --> 00:18:00.605
Hey Rachel, how was your weekend? And what do you say?
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Good. Yeah,
It was good. How was yours?
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00:18:04.035 --> 00:18:05.525
What if instead I asked, Hey Rachel,
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what was one fun thing you did this weekend?
427
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I love that. Like a more specific, more specific question
428
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that demands an answer.
429
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Basically it's one word thinking, it requires you to think
430
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and you're like, what did I do this weekend
431
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anyway, it was just yesterday.
432
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I don't know. But it's not an automated robotic answer.
433
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It, it, it, it becomes thoughtful.
434
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And so it means that now we're having a real dialogue.
435
00:18:28.825 --> 00:18:30.285
Oh, I was at my kid's soccer game.
436
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Hey, my kid plays soccer and we're finding commonalities
437
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and this can take like three minutes instead of 20 seconds .
438
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So right. And, and it's,
439
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and we're, we're building connection
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and we're building shared experiences
441
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and we're building our relationships.
442
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So it doesn't even have to be like a time, a time thing.
443
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Sometimes it's a little bit of light skills
444
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and just, you know, people say to me, I can do that.
445
00:18:53.265 --> 00:18:54.885
I'm like, great. Then can go for it.
446
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Take that question on a Monday morning, that's yours.
447
00:18:57.225 --> 00:18:59.725
So awesome. Um, it, it could be little things.
448
00:19:00.145 --> 00:19:02.365
Um, and the other piece is I agree with what I love
449
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that Maria Kondo Marie Kondo approach, I I'm always with,
450
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with dealing with time management
451
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and the client's saying, um, three Ds,
452
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dump it, delegate it, do it differently.
453
00:19:12.125 --> 00:19:15.045
Hmm. And often I can't dump anything. Delegation.
454
00:19:15.045 --> 00:19:16.365
Well my team is so overloaded.
455
00:19:16.365 --> 00:19:17.885
Well then let's talk about doing it differently.
456
00:19:18.265 --> 00:19:20.405
And you know, that's like,
457
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we're not gonna do 60 meeting minute meetings anymore.
458
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We're only gonna do 50 minute meetings.
459
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And that gives you 10 minutes to chit chat with people
460
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between meetings or 10 minutes to go for a walk
461
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or 10 minutes to get that email done or whatever.
462
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I mean, there's so many ways to do it differently.
463
00:19:36.425 --> 00:19:38.165
Met a client that realized recently
464
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is like 10 page report can really be boiled down
465
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to an email without all the formatting and all the time
466
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and went to the senior leader
467
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and said, Hey, I'm trying
468
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to find better ways of using my time.
469
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I don't know if you realize this, but this takes me about
470
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six to eight hours to, to do,
471
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would it be okay if I gave you the email summary
472
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and the leader was like, that takes you six to eight hours.
473
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I had no idea. No, I don't want you spending that.
474
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I don't need all of that.
475
00:20:09.065 --> 00:20:11.405
But how often do we just check in with stakeholders
476
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and say, could I do it differently?
477
00:20:14.065 --> 00:20:17.645
So there are lots of ways to just pause,
478
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stop making assumptions, break the status quo.
479
00:20:20.325 --> 00:20:21.405
You're right. Clean house.
480
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Um, and then of course there's all the meetings that,
481
00:20:24.705 --> 00:20:26.205
you know, you don't need 10 people.
482
00:20:26.205 --> 00:20:29.285
That could be six people and we could have a whole show
483
00:20:29.285 --> 00:20:31.605
of course, on, on these strategies.
484
00:20:31.765 --> 00:20:33.205
'cause I get a little bit, uh, geek,
485
00:20:33.205 --> 00:20:34.405
I geek out on the life hacks.
486
00:20:34.485 --> 00:20:36.085
'cause it really can make a difference. Yeah.
487
00:20:36.625 --> 00:20:39.485
But what I love about that example that you just shared is
488
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that not only did it increase humanity,
489
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but it also increased efficiency.
490
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Right? A lot of times when we increase efficiency, not
491
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through kind of robotic cuts,
492
00:20:51.065 --> 00:20:55.005
but through really giving people permission to raise flags
493
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and say, there are pieces of my work that are really painful
494
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and inefficient, which kind of reads inhumane.
495
00:21:01.305 --> 00:21:04.085
And if I were empowered to, to streamline it, to,
496
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to speed it up.
497
00:21:06.185 --> 00:21:07.805
I'm having a more human experience
498
00:21:08.185 --> 00:21:10.525
and I'm saving the organization time that I could,
499
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I could be doing something more strategic with.
500
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So yeah, there's a real win-win for people
501
00:21:15.425 --> 00:21:17.165
and organizations I think when we,
502
00:21:17.195 --> 00:21:18.445
when we frame it correctly.
503
00:21:19.515 --> 00:21:21.565
Yeah. And I love that word empowered
504
00:21:21.565 --> 00:21:23.645
because I think a lot of people are just,
505
00:21:23.825 --> 00:21:25.045
you just go, go, go.
506
00:21:25.285 --> 00:21:27.325
'cause you've been told to go and you don't feel empowered
507
00:21:27.325 --> 00:21:28.325
to stop and question.
508
00:21:29.145 --> 00:21:32.325
And yet most bosses would prefer
509
00:21:32.325 --> 00:21:34.685
that their team question the inefficiencies,
510
00:21:34.865 --> 00:21:38.205
but for some reason we just feel like we
511
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don't have that permission.
512
00:21:40.155 --> 00:21:41.205
Yeah, it's a bummer.
513
00:21:41.705 --> 00:21:43.685
So speaking of empowered, I know one
514
00:21:43.685 --> 00:21:47.165
of the pillars in your survey is all employee behaviors.
515
00:21:47.825 --> 00:21:51.125
Um, I imagine the water cooler chatter example
516
00:21:51.125 --> 00:21:53.005
that you gave is probably one of them.
517
00:21:53.105 --> 00:21:55.685
But I would love to talk about, you know, for people
518
00:21:55.785 --> 00:21:59.205
who feel like I, I'm, I'm a frontline contributor.
519
00:21:59.505 --> 00:22:02.765
I'm not in a leadership role, but I wanna do my part.
520
00:22:03.045 --> 00:22:05.205
I wanna, you know, start from the ground up and,
521
00:22:05.265 --> 00:22:08.005
and just bring a little bit more humanity into my workplace.
522
00:22:08.625 --> 00:22:11.205
Uh, where, where can people start? What do you recommend?
523
00:22:11.755 --> 00:22:15.045
Yeah. Well the first is, I know a topic
524
00:22:15.045 --> 00:22:17.205
that's also near dear to your heart, which is listening.
525
00:22:17.295 --> 00:22:19.485
Let's just, just truly listening with heart
526
00:22:19.705 --> 00:22:23.205
and just taking those moments to deeply listen to
527
00:22:23.275 --> 00:22:24.885
what is going on with people.
528
00:22:25.625 --> 00:22:28.325
It is taking the extra beat to care
529
00:22:28.425 --> 00:22:30.405
and whether it's what's going on with your family
530
00:22:30.425 --> 00:22:32.805
and how is your weekend or just that problem you're trying
531
00:22:32.805 --> 00:22:36.285
to solve and, um, going deeper and supporting
532
00:22:36.505 --> 00:22:38.045
and having more of that.
533
00:22:38.125 --> 00:22:40.205
I have your back attitude of like, well,
534
00:22:40.205 --> 00:22:41.365
maybe we can figure that out together.
535
00:22:41.435 --> 00:22:45.285
Tell me more about that. And so, um, I, with listening
536
00:22:45.315 --> 00:22:48.525
that goes hand in hand with curiosity is just
537
00:22:48.585 --> 00:22:50.965
to better understand what people are working on,
538
00:22:51.275 --> 00:22:53.285
what their strengths are, what gets them excited,
539
00:22:53.305 --> 00:22:56.965
and really like, how can we better partner together?
540
00:22:57.105 --> 00:22:59.285
How can we collaborate more? How can we partner more?
541
00:22:59.385 --> 00:23:00.685
How can we communicate better?
542
00:23:00.985 --> 00:23:04.205
So just having that continuous improvement mindset
543
00:23:04.975 --> 00:23:06.685
about your relationships at work
544
00:23:07.265 --> 00:23:09.405
is a really great way to start.
545
00:23:09.985 --> 00:23:13.645
And then just transparency goes along with all of that.
546
00:23:14.005 --> 00:23:17.085
I saying, I I I'm not gonna make that deadline
547
00:23:17.265 --> 00:23:19.925
and here's what you can expect instead.
548
00:23:20.145 --> 00:23:22.205
Or saying, you know, in that meeting when you said
549
00:23:22.205 --> 00:23:23.525
that thing, I just wanna let you know
550
00:23:23.525 --> 00:23:24.685
that this is how it went over.
551
00:23:25.185 --> 00:23:29.125
Or saying, it feels like in this situation we're
552
00:23:29.125 --> 00:23:30.525
not communicating the way we should.
553
00:23:30.585 --> 00:23:31.645
How can we improve things?
554
00:23:31.865 --> 00:23:33.205
So we just tolerate
555
00:23:33.265 --> 00:23:35.805
and ignore a lot of bad behaviors at work.
556
00:23:37.025 --> 00:23:38.365
for many reasons. Personally,
557
00:23:38.465 --> 00:23:39.965
I'm guilty, I am conflict averse.
558
00:23:40.105 --> 00:23:42.165
So I get it. Some, some of this can
559
00:23:42.715 --> 00:23:44.285
feel like we're engaging in conflict,
560
00:23:44.425 --> 00:23:46.765
but I I just try to flip the framing on that
561
00:23:46.945 --> 00:23:50.565
and say, as long as you're coming, the intention is
562
00:23:51.435 --> 00:23:52.605
improve relationships
563
00:23:52.905 --> 00:23:55.805
and the intention behind that is more productivity,
564
00:23:55.995 --> 00:23:58.045
then it's all good. Bring it on.
565
00:23:58.595 --> 00:24:01.805
Yeah, I agree with what you're saying and I,
566
00:24:01.865 --> 00:24:05.565
and I think it really has been exacerbated since the
567
00:24:05.765 --> 00:24:08.245
pandemic and since we started working in these hybrid ways.
568
00:24:09.045 --> 00:24:12.205
I can't tell you how many in-person offsites I've run
569
00:24:12.345 --> 00:24:14.565
for clients where employees,
570
00:24:14.565 --> 00:24:16.485
colleagues who've been working together for a year,
571
00:24:16.545 --> 00:24:18.565
two years have never met each other in person.
572
00:24:18.595 --> 00:24:21.005
They only know each other from these boxes on screens.
573
00:24:21.025 --> 00:24:22.485
Mm-hmm . And it's,
574
00:24:22.565 --> 00:24:24.405
and I'm, I'm a big believer in hybrid
575
00:24:24.475 --> 00:24:25.605
work, don't get me wrong.
576
00:24:27.105 --> 00:24:28.125
And I think,
577
00:24:28.265 --> 00:24:29.405
and I think there is a place
578
00:24:29.505 --> 00:24:32.085
for in-person experiences if the budget is there.
579
00:24:32.545 --> 00:24:34.885
And also I think it's important to acknowledge
580
00:24:34.885 --> 00:24:38.365
that building relationships is a different animal on screen.
581
00:24:38.965 --> 00:24:42.045
I think your point about curiosity is really well taken.
582
00:24:42.445 --> 00:24:44.685
I think being curious about somebody,
583
00:24:44.745 --> 00:24:47.975
but also being curious about
584
00:24:48.685 --> 00:24:50.215
what somebody may have meant.
585
00:24:50.455 --> 00:24:51.775
I noticed that people more
586
00:24:51.775 --> 00:24:54.015
and more are quick to make assumptions about,
587
00:24:54.445 --> 00:24:56.175
well he said this, so he thinks that about me.
588
00:24:56.315 --> 00:24:57.855
And so he hates me and I hate him too.
589
00:24:57.955 --> 00:25:00.135
And, and I'm obviously being a little bit dramatic,
590
00:25:00.155 --> 00:25:02.895
but there's a lot of very quick assumptions being made
591
00:25:02.915 --> 00:25:05.575
rather than, Hey Bonnie, when you said that,
592
00:25:05.675 --> 00:25:07.175
can you just clarify what you meant?
593
00:25:07.555 --> 00:25:10.615
Um, I, I wanna, I wanna start with an assumption
594
00:25:10.635 --> 00:25:11.695
of positive intent.
595
00:25:11.715 --> 00:25:14.055
And if you meant to offend me, let's, let's hash it out.
596
00:25:14.115 --> 00:25:17.775
But nine 10, I I don't think that that's what you meant.
597
00:25:18.115 --> 00:25:20.255
And so showing up, like you said with that blend
598
00:25:20.255 --> 00:25:23.175
of transparency, I want you to know how that came across,
599
00:25:23.315 --> 00:25:24.335
but also curiosity.
600
00:25:24.875 --> 00:25:27.615
Can you tell me more about what you meant, um, when you made
601
00:25:27.615 --> 00:25:30.815
that comment about how I speak or how I engage with clients?
602
00:25:31.205 --> 00:25:34.415
Tell me more about that. Um, I think there's a lot of room
603
00:25:34.415 --> 00:25:36.895
for that in the workplace because I think you're right,
604
00:25:36.905 --> 00:25:38.815
we're absorbing a lot of negativity,
605
00:25:39.355 --> 00:25:41.215
but a lot of it is just based on assumptions
606
00:25:41.245 --> 00:25:42.895
that may not even be accurate.
607
00:25:43.285 --> 00:25:44.615
Yeah. I mean it,
608
00:25:44.615 --> 00:25:47.335
these are all cognitive shortcuts back to being busy.
609
00:25:47.595 --> 00:25:50.255
We just, we fill in the blanks because it's fast
610
00:25:50.715 --> 00:25:53.695
and we are like, I know this personality type, I've seen it
611
00:25:53.695 --> 00:25:56.335
before and we just take the shortcuts.
612
00:25:56.355 --> 00:25:58.255
So I totally agree.
613
00:25:58.415 --> 00:26:01.575
I actually did a team workshop with a team a few months ago
614
00:26:01.635 --> 00:26:03.655
and they, I do a workshop where you,
615
00:26:03.915 --> 00:26:06.215
we organically create team agreements.
616
00:26:06.215 --> 00:26:08.975
So what are the things that being on this team mean to us
617
00:26:08.975 --> 00:26:09.975
that, that are really important?
618
00:26:11.115 --> 00:26:14.175
And one of them, and I had never seen a team do this before.
619
00:26:14.175 --> 00:26:16.055
Usually they're pretty standard trust,
620
00:26:16.415 --> 00:26:17.855
communication roles and responsibilities.
621
00:26:18.195 --> 00:26:21.175
But this one team, they called out positive intent
622
00:26:21.275 --> 00:26:23.655
as something that they wanted to have as one
623
00:26:23.655 --> 00:26:27.535
of their team agreements because they felt like continuously
624
00:26:27.845 --> 00:26:30.415
that was the rub, that was the tension of like,
625
00:26:30.415 --> 00:26:33.375
they were not giving each other the benefit of the doubt.
626
00:26:33.955 --> 00:26:36.735
And then when I checked in with them three months later,
627
00:26:37.285 --> 00:26:40.095
they had all these powerful examples of where
628
00:26:40.095 --> 00:26:42.895
that was coming through and, and they realized,
629
00:26:43.105 --> 00:26:44.125
and then some of them were like,
630
00:26:44.125 --> 00:26:45.925
and I realize I'm doing this in my personal life,
631
00:26:45.925 --> 00:26:48.045
that I'm not giving people the benefit of the doubt.
632
00:26:48.105 --> 00:26:51.005
And so we talk about humanity, you know, that
633
00:26:51.385 --> 00:26:54.085
No,
That was really cool that they had that aha
634
00:26:54.145 --> 00:26:55.325
and that they were going with it.
635
00:26:55.785 --> 00:26:59.245
That's a real win. So I wanna ask you
636
00:27:00.355 --> 00:27:04.365
selfishly, you alluded earlier, no, you stated earlier
637
00:27:04.515 --> 00:27:06.245
that you are a strengths-based coach.
638
00:27:06.945 --> 00:27:10.085
Um, you know, a lot of what I hear around me,
639
00:27:10.345 --> 00:27:14.005
and sometimes it's in my own head, , we can tend to be,
640
00:27:14.175 --> 00:27:16.845
we're talking about kind of assumptions of, of negativity,
641
00:27:16.845 --> 00:27:19.725
but sometimes we are the worst with ourselves when it comes
642
00:27:20.025 --> 00:27:21.205
to some of these things.
643
00:27:22.025 --> 00:27:24.085
And I would love it for somebody
644
00:27:24.105 --> 00:27:26.925
who maybe does not have the good fortune of the budget
645
00:27:27.265 --> 00:27:31.205
to work with you one-on-one, any tips that you can offer
646
00:27:31.385 --> 00:27:35.605
around how we can take a strengths-based coaching approach
647
00:27:35.915 --> 00:27:38.125
with ourselves or, or with a colleague?
648
00:27:38.125 --> 00:27:40.205
What does that look like? What does that sound like?
649
00:27:41.355 --> 00:27:44.645
Yeah, I love that question. Um, so many things.
650
00:27:44.885 --> 00:27:46.205
'cause I do a lot of work in this space.
651
00:27:46.465 --> 00:27:48.525
So for starters, I'll give another plug
652
00:27:48.525 --> 00:27:50.805
for another free assessment, which is called Standout .
653
00:27:51.905 --> 00:27:54.845
And so standout will give you your top two strengths roles,
654
00:27:55.185 --> 00:27:59.165
and this is how we tend to show up in any situation.
655
00:27:59.425 --> 00:28:01.805
And so you can use that strengths lens.
656
00:28:01.825 --> 00:28:04.765
So my top two roles are connector provider.
657
00:28:04.905 --> 00:28:07.965
And so sometimes when I am stuck, I will just ask myself,
658
00:28:08.025 --> 00:28:10.005
how would a connector provider solve this problem
659
00:28:10.665 --> 00:28:12.245
to get myself unstuck?
660
00:28:13.185 --> 00:28:15.405
And, um, so, so that is one way.
661
00:28:15.565 --> 00:28:19.125
The other thing is thinking about connecting, engaging
662
00:28:19.125 --> 00:28:20.805
with people in strengths-based ways.
663
00:28:21.145 --> 00:28:23.965
So again, I'll get back to simple chitchat example.
664
00:28:24.145 --> 00:28:26.725
We get to a cocktail party or we get to the soccer field
665
00:28:26.825 --> 00:28:29.645
or whatever social situation, personal or professional.
666
00:28:29.665 --> 00:28:33.085
And we ask, Hey Rachel, what do you do for a living?
667
00:28:33.115 --> 00:28:34.285
What do you do for work?
668
00:28:34.985 --> 00:28:38.245
And somebody like you, you're gonna light up
669
00:28:38.245 --> 00:28:39.845
and tell me what you do and it's going,
670
00:28:39.845 --> 00:28:42.165
you're gonna probably start an engaging conversation.
671
00:28:42.195 --> 00:28:46.405
Many people, I'm a financial analyst, I'm a lawyer, I, okay,
672
00:28:46.425 --> 00:28:48.245
so a strengths-based question would be, Hey Rachel,
673
00:28:48.245 --> 00:28:49.245
what do you love about your work?
674
00:28:50.955 --> 00:28:53.085
That is really interesting.
675
00:28:53.555 --> 00:28:54.725
Yeah, that's really interesting
676
00:28:54.725 --> 00:28:58.565
because it puts me as the answer in a, in a mindset
677
00:28:58.665 --> 00:29:01.325
of hunting for something that I enjoy about it. Yeah,
678
00:29:01.475 --> 00:29:02.475
Exactly.
679
00:29:02.475 --> 00:29:05.165
It literally forces you to think about the positive
680
00:29:05.545 --> 00:29:07.485
before you're just going right to the negative.
681
00:29:07.505 --> 00:29:11.005
And now you also, I have now sparked an emotional,
682
00:29:11.025 --> 00:29:12.805
and I don't mean an emotional like I'm bringing you
683
00:29:12.805 --> 00:29:15.205
to tears, , I mean in a positive emotion.
684
00:29:15.715 --> 00:29:19.525
I've now engaged with you in an emotional way so that
685
00:29:20.265 --> 00:29:21.805
the base of our relationship,
686
00:29:21.855 --> 00:29:24.525
we're now talking about something meaningful and warm
687
00:29:24.985 --> 00:29:29.165
and joyful instead of like complaining about, you know, the,
688
00:29:29.305 --> 00:29:32.645
the long lines of Costco, which, you know, , I'm, I,
689
00:29:32.665 --> 00:29:34.365
so often I'm in my social life, I'm like,
690
00:29:34.365 --> 00:29:35.485
why am I talking about this?
691
00:29:35.515 --> 00:29:37.565
Like complaining and negativity.
692
00:29:37.785 --> 00:29:39.445
So there are ways
693
00:29:39.505 --> 00:29:42.405
to engage each other in these strengths-based kind
694
00:29:42.405 --> 00:29:45.165
of conversations, but it takes work.
695
00:29:45.345 --> 00:29:47.165
Uh, you're right, the negativity is there.
696
00:29:47.165 --> 00:29:49.685
You probably know this. We are wired for negativity.
697
00:29:49.825 --> 00:29:51.365
Our brains naturally go there.
698
00:29:51.945 --> 00:29:54.645
Um, I think like you, I do a lot of 360 degree assessments.
699
00:29:54.645 --> 00:29:56.925
People consistently score themselves lower.
700
00:29:58.225 --> 00:30:00.525
You know, I work with Apple and some really high performing
701
00:30:00.765 --> 00:30:03.565
companies and people very ly score themselves lower.
702
00:30:03.755 --> 00:30:05.565
They are, we're really hard on ourselves.
703
00:30:05.665 --> 00:30:08.005
So we need to overcome that.
704
00:30:08.385 --> 00:30:11.005
And then the last thing I would say is just for people
705
00:30:11.005 --> 00:30:13.965
to do their own little light research on negativity bias
706
00:30:13.985 --> 00:30:15.085
and imposter syndrome.
707
00:30:15.235 --> 00:30:18.645
Because literally our brains are hardwired
708
00:30:18.645 --> 00:30:19.845
to always find the negative
709
00:30:19.845 --> 00:30:21.605
because that's what survival means.
710
00:30:21.785 --> 00:30:23.285
So just study up a little bit
711
00:30:23.285 --> 00:30:26.325
and learn more about what that means so that we can overcome
712
00:30:27.155 --> 00:30:30.565
that tendency and be kinder to ourselves.
713
00:30:30.985 --> 00:30:33.645
Um, self-compassion is really important.
714
00:30:34.505 --> 00:30:37.245
Um, Kristen Neff, who may have read her work,
715
00:30:37.335 --> 00:30:38.885
she's an expert on self-compassion.
716
00:30:38.945 --> 00:30:42.365
She talks about talking to yourself the way you would talk
717
00:30:42.365 --> 00:30:43.685
to your best friend or your sister.
718
00:30:43.755 --> 00:30:46.565
Like we, we are, we're so mean to ourselves.
719
00:30:46.585 --> 00:30:48.205
We wouldn't talk to our best friend that way.
720
00:30:49.025 --> 00:30:50.925
So being kinder and,
721
00:30:50.925 --> 00:30:53.925
and our self-compassion is also important.
722
00:30:54.465 --> 00:30:55.965
Really nice. Thank you.
723
00:30:56.425 --> 00:30:59.605
Bonnie, is there anything that I haven't asked you about
724
00:31:01.165 --> 00:31:05.045
building a more human workplace that feels important today?
725
00:31:07.475 --> 00:31:09.275
I would say for people to be honest about
726
00:31:09.275 --> 00:31:13.155
where do I have some control over helping to influence
727
00:31:13.675 --> 00:31:15.555
a more human-centered workplace.
728
00:31:15.775 --> 00:31:20.755
So even if you're not in a leadership role, that's okay.
729
00:31:20.775 --> 00:31:21.915
You can still take the assessment
730
00:31:21.975 --> 00:31:23.995
and pick like one or two things on there.
731
00:31:24.025 --> 00:31:25.995
Even if it's your own action to go, you know what,
732
00:31:26.415 --> 00:31:28.235
I'm committed to more active listening with my,
733
00:31:28.295 --> 00:31:29.835
I'm committed to more curiosity.
734
00:31:30.135 --> 00:31:31.195
So, uh,
735
00:31:31.195 --> 00:31:32.755
but there also could be things that,
736
00:31:32.825 --> 00:31:34.835
that be bold, be courageous.
737
00:31:34.835 --> 00:31:38.595
Because if you are feeling the rub of things
738
00:31:38.595 --> 00:31:40.715
that can be more human centered in your organization,
739
00:31:41.055 --> 00:31:42.275
you're probably not alone.
740
00:31:42.455 --> 00:31:45.235
So I would just encourage people to take some action,
741
00:31:45.235 --> 00:31:46.395
feel like they can be an advocate.
742
00:31:46.695 --> 00:31:48.595
And of course if you are in an HR
743
00:31:48.595 --> 00:31:51.075
or leadership role, then prioritize.
744
00:31:51.415 --> 00:31:54.435
It could be just a few things can really make a difference
745
00:31:54.435 --> 00:31:56.275
for your organization to feel more human centered.
746
00:31:56.405 --> 00:31:58.555
We're not talking about a major overhaul.
747
00:31:59.015 --> 00:32:00.635
And sometimes the difference is,
748
00:32:00.735 --> 00:32:02.195
is actually being strengths based
749
00:32:02.195 --> 00:32:03.955
and going, wow, you know, we're good at that already.
750
00:32:04.445 --> 00:32:06.555
Let's be even more intentional about the things
751
00:32:06.555 --> 00:32:07.715
that we're already good at.
752
00:32:07.745 --> 00:32:09.435
It's not even always big change.
753
00:32:09.575 --> 00:32:10.955
So take some ownership
754
00:32:10.955 --> 00:32:12.755
because it can really make a big difference.
755
00:32:13.035 --> 00:32:15.835
'cause in my opinion, this is people's health.
756
00:32:16.065 --> 00:32:17.795
This is, I mean, this can avoid burnout.
757
00:32:18.015 --> 00:32:20.275
It can mean that you, you literally are healthy
758
00:32:20.295 --> 00:32:21.795
or it means that you're, you come home
759
00:32:21.795 --> 00:32:23.435
and you're not as grumpy with your, your children
760
00:32:23.495 --> 00:32:24.595
or not as grumpy with the person
761
00:32:24.595 --> 00:32:25.795
who rings up your groceries.
762
00:32:25.815 --> 00:32:29.235
So I also believe that the domino effect
763
00:32:29.295 --> 00:32:32.595
of more human-centered workplaces is bigger than
764
00:32:32.625 --> 00:32:33.635
just our work.
765
00:32:33.735 --> 00:32:35.435
And that is one of the things that gets me
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so excited about doing this.
767
00:32:37.905 --> 00:32:40.285
Beautiful. One of the phrases I love to use
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00:32:40.285 --> 00:32:41.685
with my clients is this idea
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that I call focus on your locus.
770
00:32:43.485 --> 00:32:45.805
Mm-hmm . So there are always gonna be a million things
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that are totally out of our control,
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and there's always gonna be at least one thing
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that's within our control.
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00:32:50.545 --> 00:32:53.085
So let's focus there. So I love that, that take action.
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00:32:53.085 --> 00:32:56.765
Yeah. And I really love that idea about start with
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where you're already doing well
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00:32:58.065 --> 00:32:59.445
and just turn the dial up on that.
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00:32:59.605 --> 00:33:01.525
I think that's a really, really powerful space
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to play if you're in like 40 meetings a week
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00:33:04.705 --> 00:33:05.845
and you're losing your mind,
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00:33:05.865 --> 00:33:09.485
but one of those meetings is like really great, think about
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what makes that meeting great
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00:33:11.065 --> 00:33:12.565
and what can you take from that
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00:33:12.625 --> 00:33:14.685
and infuse into just one other meeting
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00:33:14.905 --> 00:33:17.125
and just start there. I think that's, yeah,
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00:33:17.275 --> 00:33:18.275
This is actually .
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00:33:18.925 --> 00:33:20.725
I know you mentioned, I'll go full circle to LinkedIn.
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00:33:20.725 --> 00:33:22.525
This is my next LinkedIn post, which was, um,
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00:33:22.805 --> 00:33:24.885
I just finished the book Reset by Dan Heath
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00:33:25.825 --> 00:33:27.325
and, um, and Bright Spots.
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00:33:27.385 --> 00:33:29.325
He talks about bright spots. He talks about when we,
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00:33:29.325 --> 00:33:31.845
when we fix things, we look for the problems to fix,
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00:33:32.065 --> 00:33:34.885
but first look for what's working and do more of it.
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00:33:34.945 --> 00:33:36.525
And I have a, my LinkedIn post is all
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00:33:36.525 --> 00:33:38.765
about bright spots, so there you go. . Spoiler alert.
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00:33:39.005 --> 00:33:41.525
I cannot wait to read it. Um, it's very weird.
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00:33:41.685 --> 00:33:42.885
I also just finished that book
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00:33:42.985 --> 00:33:44.965
and my team is in the process of reaching out to him.
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00:33:45.225 --> 00:33:46.925
Um, Dan Heath, if you're listening
800
00:33:46.925 --> 00:33:49.565
and I'm sure you are, please come on the show. Um,
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00:33:49.715 --> 00:33:50.715
Yeah, that would be great.
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00:33:50.885 --> 00:33:52.085
I will listen. Uh, he's, he's awesome.
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00:33:52.325 --> 00:33:54.165
I really, uh, like his work a lot.
804
00:33:55.075 --> 00:33:57.165
Well, Bonnie, this has been such a pleasure.
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00:33:57.165 --> 00:33:58.445
Thank you so much again.
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00:33:58.445 --> 00:34:00.245
We will have links in the show notes for
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00:34:00.245 --> 00:34:03.445
where people can find more about you, your organization,
808
00:34:03.785 --> 00:34:05.165
and your amazing assessment.
809
00:34:05.265 --> 00:34:07.085
But thank you so much for being here today. Thank
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00:34:07.085 --> 00:34:08.085
You, Rachel.
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00:34:08.085 --> 00:34:09.205
This was a fun conversation. I
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00:34:09.365 --> 00:34:11.885
Hope you enjoyed my conversation with Bonnie Davis.
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00:34:12.465 --> 00:34:13.685
You can learn more about her
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00:34:13.785 --> 00:34:17.925
and the work that she does@hughworkteam.com.
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00:34:18.225 --> 00:34:21.485
That's HU work team.com.
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00:34:22.195 --> 00:34:23.685
Join me next week for another great
817
00:34:23.685 --> 00:34:24.725
episode of Modern Mentor.
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00:34:25.055 --> 00:34:28.005
Until then, visit my website@leadabovenoise.com.
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00:34:28.305 --> 00:34:31.245
If your organization could use a talk, a bootcamp,
820
00:34:31.305 --> 00:34:34.725
or a workshop, follow Modern Mentor on Apple Podcasts,
821
00:34:34.725 --> 00:34:36.445
Spotify, or wherever you listen.
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00:34:36.945 --> 00:34:39.565
Thanks so much for listening and have a successful week.
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00:34:40.105 --> 00:34:42.325
Modern Mentor is a quick and Dirty Tips podcast.
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00:34:42.755 --> 00:34:44.445
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00:34:44.865 --> 00:34:47.165
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