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Hey, it's Rachel Cook, your modern mentor.
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I'm the founder of Lead Above Noise
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where we help leaders activate performance without burning
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out their teams or themselves.
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If your team could use a boost of inspiration
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and action, I'd love to support you with a workshop
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or a program or a keynote.
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You can find out more about me
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and my work@leadabovenoise.com.
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So we're back with the fourth in our four-part summer
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short interview series.
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And today's guest is Jamie Klein.
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Jamie is the founder and CEO of Inspire hr,
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which is the HR leader's go-to partner
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for interim senior experts on strategy and execution.
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And in this quick hit conversation, we talk about some
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of the workplace trends that Jamie's seeing these days.
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We cover ai, return to office,
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and what's happening with DEI and more.
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So enjoy this conversation with Jamie Klein.
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So Jamie Klein, founder and CEO of Inspire hr.
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Welcome to the Modern Mentor Podcast.
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Thank you for being with me today.
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Oh my gosh, Rachel, thank you
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so much for asking me to join.
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It's my pleasure. So you
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and I have known each other now for quite a long time.
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We crossed paths back in the day when I was still working
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full-time and you were doing this crazy
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to me independent thing
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and you were one of those women
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who really helped pave the path for me.
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And so thank you. You have been doing this now.
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So you run Inspire HR
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and you have been doing this for, I wanna say 19 years.
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Is that correct? Yeah,
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This is our 19th, which is crazy
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because I'm still 28,
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so I'm not sure how that math works out. ,
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It was amazing when in fifth grade you
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started up <inaudible>.
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We were all so impressed .
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Why
I wanted to talk to you today, Jamie,
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besides just adoring
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and respecting you generally is so you run this organization
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where you yourself
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and the amazing swath of experts
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that you have on staff are going into lots
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of different organizations these days
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and working in the realm of hr, whether it is project based,
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engagement based, you know,
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whether you're covering somebody's leave.
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But the point being you are just inside of
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so many different companies and you're seeing things
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and you're hearing things and the workplace feels like the
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absolute wild west these days.
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And so I wanted to pick your brain just about
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what you're seeing and what you're hearing and
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and what's really capturing your
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and your expert's attention these days.
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Sure. And again, thank you for having me
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and I'm flattered by what you said.
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I've been a Rachel's super fan for a long time,
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so, so happy to be here.
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And I love your firm as well.
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So what we're seeing is it's so interesting,
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it's pretty consistent, no matter size of organization,
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zip code industry, you bring a bunch of people together
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and the same stuff goes down.
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I think folks are pretty AI obsessed at this moment
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and it feels akin
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to when the internet first started And you know,
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you would see some companies say, oh you know,
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we're gonna have our customers continue to go
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to our really thick phone book size catalog rather than
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going on and kind of looking at our inventory online.
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And some people were earlier adopters.
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It feels a little bit like that.
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I've heard countless people say AI is not going
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to take our jobs, but the people who really are agile
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with AI will take our jobs.
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So I am seeing a trend across HR
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where everyone is curious.
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I think that there is a spectrum of kind of early adopters
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to folks that have fully implemented it.
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So for example, Pfizer, I think that they have co-CEOs
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and we run these monthly HR salons
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and we are recently talking about companies
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that are quite extraordinary
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and someone relayed the advisor.
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It's kind of embedded the use of AI is kind
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of embedded in goals at a company level and
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therefore of course it trickles down to the point of
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where they've had prompt aons really helping
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employees understand how to come up with the best prompts.
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Because what I've heard from countless authors thought
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leaders is that less important
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that you have the answer is more important
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that you ask the right question
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because we'll all be able to get the answers.
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It's how you prompt and so how you ask the question.
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So a lot of organizations are doing things
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to look at the entire employee experience
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and really challenge their HR team to think
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how do we automate, create efficiencies,
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get rid of joyless work.
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And a hack that I heard um, recently is when you are talking
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to chat GPT, Gemini, Claude, whoever it is to ask
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what other questions should I be asking you
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to get the most thorough answer?
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I thought that was really smart.
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And we've seen organizations do everything from utilize AI
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in the applicant analysis system.
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I think most candidates these days,
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they really look at the job description
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and then they attach their resume
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and say, please update my resume to
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most beautifully meet the moment of
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what this job is looking for.
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So I think recruiters assume that people have kind
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of had their resume a little bit judged up.
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But what people are really using AI effectively for is to
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screen those resumes
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and really understand who has had, you know, the basic,
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you know, like successive promotions is always coming into
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um, more senior roles shows innovation.
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So teaching AI to do that.
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Recently we were told that one of our clients had it stopped
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that for the first round of interview you get on with
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and the candidate knows in advance it's just a screen
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and AI asks a number of questions
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and the candidate answers.
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So you don't have to get all, you know, gussy up
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and put on, you know, a fancy outfit
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because you know that you will just be talking to a machine.
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But companies are using it,
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I would say most heavily in the TA space
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because it's such a high touch heavy volume.
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You need an army of people
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to find the right candidate and schedule interviews.
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So there's lots of hacks there. So
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we're seeing the most use in ta.
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We're also seeing it used um, in other parts
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of the employee life cycle such as succession planning.
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So kind of what used to take data analysts, you know,
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weeks now in minutes,
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AI can take all this disparate information
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and really aggregate it, whether it's in the form
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of PowerPoint or PDF or performance reviews
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and look at it to look through top candidates.
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I could go on but by another example is kind of um,
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all the verbatims through employee surveys
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and all the things that people write, that sentiment kind
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of AI aggregating all of those themes.
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And of course this has all be password protected
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to protect the company's ip,
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but clearly everyone is exploring where they can automate
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and have high impact across the employee experience.
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Yeah, that's
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Fascinating there.
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I can't even count the number of different things
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that I just heard you touch on in there as far as where
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AI is showing up, how organizations are using it,
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it sounds like they're using it at kind of macro levels
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to do data analysis,
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but they're doing it in ways
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to create higher touch experience with their employees.
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But then it also sounds like they want their employees
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to be upskilling themselves in terms of prompting
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and questioning and so it's kind of touching at every level.
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Yeah. For folks who are wanting others to kind
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of dive into the pool and kind of make all the mistakes
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and kind of teach them, but companies who are just kind
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of dipping their foot in the pool, what we always say
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to those organizations is ask your employees
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to even try doing something personal.
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Like, you know, help me plan the perfect place for a picnic.
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Here's my zip code, what do you recommend?
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Or I have to plan a birthday party for a loved one.
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What are some creative ideas? Just I'm planning
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a vacation to go to the beach this summer.
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What are some great spots in the Jersey shore?
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I wanna go to Sonoma. What are the great vineyards?
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Whatever it is, because then it's self-motivated
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and folks see the user friendliness of it.
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And so that is kind of a quick way to get folks excited
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and interested and more comfortable.
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But a lot of organizations we know they are telling their
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employees paste most draft emails into AI
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and just hit Polish
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and it will come up with more succinct appropriate language.
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Then you can say, do you want it more business-Like,
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do you want it to be more casual?
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And it can ju it either way,
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but yeah, it's here to stay. Yeah,
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That's really interesting.
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And what about organiz?
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Are you still coming across organizations that are fearful
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of AI that aren't yet for sure giving them their access
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and what's your hot take there?
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Yeah, so I totally appreciate it,
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totally appreciate everyone's at their own point on the
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journey and I think that the organizations
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that are the most fearful are so
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because of the concern of data breaches.
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So you know, just the notion
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that you could put all your IP out there,
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even if it's password protected
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and you know, two years, five years,
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seven years from now, who knows what's ahead.
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That information could be there
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and I think it is founded, right?
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You need to just make sure that your tech team is very much
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staying up to date on all the things that can be done
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to make the organization more confident in using ai.
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And you know, you think of any other type
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of massive change in work
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or on the home front where we've had this type
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of transformation,
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there are always gonna be those organizations that want to
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wait and see others kind of make the mistakes,
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lessons learned so that they can kind of dive in.
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But Erica Swin, who's a future of work leader that I love,
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she put in a, a newsletter recently that the jobs that kind
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of summer interns are doing this summer
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most will be able to be done by AI by Christmas , right?
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Like this is the pace at which things are working.
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And so yeah, just really encourage folks
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to cautiously get on the bus within
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their comfort zone. Yeah.
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I have one more question on the AI front for you.
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And this is, this is really just kind of your perspective,
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Jamie, but you know, I hear people,
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on the one hand I hear people talking about, you know,
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the importance of ai
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and we have to, we have to develop a comfort with it.
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We have to develop skill and agility with it.
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On the other hand, I I hear people saying things like,
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I would never use AI in my writing.
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My work is all original.
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I would never use AI in, you know,
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and I I feel like people are sort of struggling
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with this tension between yeah, you know, I need to learn it
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because it's a new technology,
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but I don't want people to think
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that I am not doing original working or thinking.
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And so how are you seeing people
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kind of navigate that tension? Yeah.
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I've heard multiple authors
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and marketing folks talk about that.
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Think of all the, you know, the strikes that have happened
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with, um, all the late night talk show hosts.
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They're like, you know what, without my team,
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I actually I'm not as funny.
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That's right. And so there are, there's a lot of concern.
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It's their ip, it's their craft.
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So I think that there is validity to that.
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I think that the art of being able to take someone
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to take the ideas in our beautiful human minds
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and kind of put them on paper is really a precious skill.
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And what is my take, my take is that
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the human will always be able to bring to the writing
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true empathy, true lived experience that is shared true.
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Oh my god, remember that thing that happened
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to us when we both worked at American Express years ago?
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I mean, AI will never know that,
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but I think that there's a magic middle that probably has
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to be found because three, if we were to do this, you know,
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catch up again in 20 28, 29, it'd be,
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it would be really interesting
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to see if I'm just taking a job.
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The employee communications teams at organizations
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are finding a way to integrate AI in some way
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that I can't even envision sitting here in 25.
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But as a quick example, you can now attach documents.
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So let's say that a communications leader comes out of a,
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a brainstorming meeting of how to get a town hall ready
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and there's disparate pieces of data, right?
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There's a PDF, there's
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something written on a piece of paper.
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You can attach all of those things
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and AI can kind of take all the disparate information,
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come up with a draft to give you a running start rather than
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you, you know, literally sitting there going through slides
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and figuring it all out.
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So I think of it more as
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what did our mutual friend Ian O'Keefe from Iona say?
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He said, it's not an Ivy League intern.
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It's like having a really eager intern.
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So someone who's like, I have, I'm full of energy.
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Let me try it this way, this way. Oh, you want it that way?
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You want it in bullets, I can do that.
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And they never get tired.
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That is, that is very funny.
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But that is a very helpful way to think about it.
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It's like a hungry, ready, set hands. Yeah.
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Yes. And it's not perfect, right?
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They may get nuanced wrong
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or misunderstand that you actually want this in language
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that is meant for, you know, an audience that's from Canada
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and that joke would fall flat or whatever it is.
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So it's, I always think of it as a first draft
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or a running star,
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but there's an art to creating the first draft. Yeah,
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For
Sure.
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That I think is, is going to be unfolding for all of us
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during our career in our lifetime. Yeah,
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That's awesome Jamie, and thank you for, for having
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that first conversation about AI with me.
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I have not talked about it on the podcast yet,
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so tell me what else, what else is on
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your radar, on your mind?
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Oh my goodness. OMG ,
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everyone's back in the office for real.
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So I've, multiple organizations are looking
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to hire chief people officer as head of hr
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and from the jump they're saying it's four days
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in the office, one day virtual.
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I think that it's harder change management
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for long-term employees who have been there
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and had massive flexibility.
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And then it was 3, 2, 2 3.
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But it's really four one that's, that's a thing.
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And I was in Midtown Manhattan two days ago for coffee
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and literally I walked into this coffee shop,
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it was adorable at 53rd
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and Lex Devo, I'm probably saying it wrong,
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it has some fancy pronunciation of the word devotion
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and literally they were like 14 people in line for coffee.
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I was like, where did everybody come from?
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But it was like, it was a long line, it was a long line.
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It was a, it was a moment
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where I realized people are back in the office.
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They are, you know, we used to talk about how bring, we want
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to bring people back for moment that matter.
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The idea is, you know, if you're gonna kind
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of drag everybody in, you can't have 'em sitting there on
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their laptops on Zoom calls.
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But now it's less moments that matter.
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It's this is how work is done.
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We want to be able to quickly do that old thing
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where you can kind of grab someone
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and say, Hey, can we just kind
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of come in and debrief on that meeting?
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I know we just finished the meeting in the conference room,
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but now we need to like really talk about
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what really happened in the room, the conference room
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and kind of grabbing people in the hallway.
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And I think what's happening is there was
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that moment in Zoom when we were all virtual, where you felt
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that everyone had a level playing field
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because we were all in the Hollywood Square boxes.
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And then it kind of went to, alright,
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some folks are virtual,
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some folks are in the room, that call will end.
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The people who are virtual will feel like, wow, I dialed in.
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I set that meeting. But then the people
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that were there could kind of have
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that side hall wait conversation going back to their desk.
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And now what I'm seeing more is, it's like, like Hamilton,
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you wanna be in the room where it happens,
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like it's really happening in the room.
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And if you are not there,
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there're you're at a little bit of a disadvantage.
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And this, if we had spoken Rachel like, I don't know,
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12 months ago, I wouldn't have been
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talking about that as much.
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But I think that with this new administration that is in,
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it's also set the tone
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and it was always that ripple effect
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into the private sector.
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But I think that we, what we've seen definitely since
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January is more of a urge to be in the office.
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So what that means is for many of our clients,
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they have employees that are in multiple states
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because people, you know,
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worked at the office in Pennsylvania,
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but then during the pandemic they decided to move
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to the Catskills in upstate New York.
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But now they have that treasured employee in Catskill,
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you know, in upstate New York
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and they have to kind of drag them back to Pennsylvania
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or say we're sorry.
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But this job now sets in Pennsylvania
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and I think that organizations
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for a while were comfortable having, you know, new text laws
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and understandings of all the things and very per state.
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And now I'm seeing less and less of a interest in that.
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So that's another kind of big trend I'm seeing from kind
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of the, the quick coffee shop observations
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to the, um, the reality.
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Um, and some of our clients have gone.
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So, you know, as far as to say for you
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to have a strong career path here,
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you are expected to be in.
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So there's a lot of change happening real time.
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That's kind of another big thing.
398
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And the last thing that is really
399
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on people's minds is the whole shift around DEI.
400
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So I know that you
401
00:16:20.845 --> 00:16:24.405
and I growing up at Amex, you know, the way that we operate
402
00:16:24.405 --> 00:16:25.685
and the way that we work is, you know,
403
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inclusion is always woven in to the work that we do.
404
00:16:28.485 --> 00:16:30.885
It was in the company goals, it kind of cascaded down
405
00:16:30.905 --> 00:16:32.605
and it's kind of how I approach things.
406
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I know that you do too.
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And what we're seeing is that
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since the new administration has made various announcements
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and changes that even, you know, private sector
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companies are really impacted.
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So companies have done everything from
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closing down initiatives.
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So picturing, you know, a big four consulting firm that had,
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you know, the female partner track initiative just
415
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closing that program down
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or the program that was
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00:17:03.745 --> 00:17:07.005
for high potential women has been rebranded to now be open
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to anyone high potential
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and also rebranding of the way that things are discussed.
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00:17:13.565 --> 00:17:15.325
So what I'm hearing is that every organization,
421
00:17:15.325 --> 00:17:17.285
every HR leader wants to very much
422
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have the same initiatives,
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but they need to make sure
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that there are no metrics associated with
425
00:17:23.965 --> 00:17:26.365
what success looks like and they need to rethink the word.
426
00:17:26.425 --> 00:17:30.125
So I'm seeing departments now be called things like
427
00:17:30.235 --> 00:17:32.365
belonging or trust or transparency,
428
00:17:32.905 --> 00:17:35.245
and I don't know a lot of organizations
429
00:17:35.245 --> 00:17:36.285
who have done the following.
430
00:17:36.985 --> 00:17:39.405
I'm waiting if any, if you know of any, please let me know.
431
00:17:39.585 --> 00:17:41.445
But I would love an organization to get up
432
00:17:41.545 --> 00:17:44.605
and just say, we are rebranding things
433
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because we want to stay sustainable as an organization
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00:17:48.025 --> 00:17:49.405
and we want to be very agile
435
00:17:49.405 --> 00:17:50.565
and kind of in the moment of
436
00:17:50.565 --> 00:17:53.285
how things are discussed now, the work is the same .
437
00:17:54.085 --> 00:17:55.845
I think a lot of leaders that I've just kind
438
00:17:55.845 --> 00:17:58.005
of read about are kind of saying, you know, as you know,
439
00:17:58.055 --> 00:18:00.845
we've never focused on inclusion from traditionally
440
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marginalized in group, you know, groups as, as a metric.
441
00:18:03.495 --> 00:18:04.805
We've always focused on merit
442
00:18:05.425 --> 00:18:06.525
and people in the town hall are like,
443
00:18:06.525 --> 00:18:08.845
that's something I've never heard you talking about merit
444
00:18:09.025 --> 00:18:10.925
as like the currency in which things are treated.
445
00:18:10.955 --> 00:18:12.045
It's assumed that it's merit,
446
00:18:12.345 --> 00:18:14.765
but we also knew that we had initiatives to make sure
447
00:18:14.765 --> 00:18:16.845
that folks who judicially didn't have a seat at the table
448
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had the path to get there.
449
00:18:18.265 --> 00:18:19.965
And we were really intentional about it.
450
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And I think that employees are adults
451
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and they have long-term memories
452
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and everyone remembers all the work
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that's been done since the murder of George Floyd
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and the overdue racial reckoning in our country.
455
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And so many employees were made to go
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to mandatory training and all these things.
457
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And now those things have wound down
458
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and employers I think need
459
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to speak more honestly about why things
460
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are getting rebranded.
461
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And I think it's, we wanna stay sustainable
462
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and be relevant as an organization.
463
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This is kind of what we need to do.
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And the work is still the same
465
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and the guts are still the same,
466
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but I think that more of that straight talk is helpful.
467
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And I also think
468
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that trust feels like a luxury item these days.
469
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So to kind of build those moments of trust in small settings
470
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with employees and just speak really plainly,
471
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I think is really key
472
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because employees know that it used to be called DEI
473
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and like their water bottle that they had said that
474
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and now they're, they've decided
475
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to call it employee engagement.
476
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So I think we are all working, living and parenting
477
00:19:14.305 --> 00:19:17.325
and really unprecedented, interesting times.
478
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And what I also see is that HR leaders who are at the helm
479
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and trying to think about the impact
480
00:19:23.805 --> 00:19:26.245
and all these changes to employees are also
481
00:19:26.245 --> 00:19:27.605
having a, a little bit of burnout.
482
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And I know you've done a lot of discussion about that
483
00:19:31.225 --> 00:19:32.565
in your multi-part series
484
00:19:32.625 --> 00:19:34.685
and I think that that's an important thing.
485
00:19:34.985 --> 00:19:36.845
You know, self-care for HR is always top
486
00:19:36.845 --> 00:19:38.605
of mind, um, for us.
487
00:19:38.905 --> 00:19:40.405
So yeah. Wow.
488
00:19:40.835 --> 00:19:41.965
It's a, it's a lot.
489
00:19:42.285 --> 00:19:44.605
I think, you know, I came into this conversation
490
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with a firm belief that things are complicated and messy
491
00:19:48.825 --> 00:19:50.165
and people are a little exhausted,
492
00:19:50.165 --> 00:19:53.845
but I think you just put some really nice specificity to it.
493
00:19:54.305 --> 00:19:56.245
I'm wondering what advice you have, Jamie,
494
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for any just regular citizen in an organization who's
495
00:20:00.165 --> 00:20:02.565
listening to you and thinking like, oh my gosh, yes,
496
00:20:02.685 --> 00:20:03.925
I am feeling all of that.
497
00:20:04.045 --> 00:20:06.925
I am feeling like suddenly we're not allowed
498
00:20:06.925 --> 00:20:08.525
to talk about diversity
499
00:20:08.625 --> 00:20:09.965
and we're pretending it never happened.
500
00:20:09.985 --> 00:20:11.965
And also I have to be in the office four days
501
00:20:11.965 --> 00:20:14.525
and that's actually gotten really challenging in my life.
502
00:20:14.665 --> 00:20:16.685
Or I actually feel like I'm a lot more productive
503
00:20:16.825 --> 00:20:18.525
and I have a couple of days from home
504
00:20:18.705 --> 00:20:20.845
and all of this stuff is moving
505
00:20:20.985 --> 00:20:23.205
and also the economy is uncertain
506
00:20:23.425 --> 00:20:25.365
and so I'm not super engaged,
507
00:20:25.425 --> 00:20:27.245
but also I'm not ready to leave my job
508
00:20:27.245 --> 00:20:28.885
because, you know, I don't have
509
00:20:28.885 --> 00:20:30.725
that confidence right now of,
510
00:20:30.745 --> 00:20:31.405
Of course. Um,
511
00:20:31.585 --> 00:20:35.645
How are you just offering people advice just around how to
512
00:20:36.405 --> 00:20:37.605
navigate this season?
513
00:20:37.605 --> 00:20:39.805
Mm-hmm. We're in how to keep your head
514
00:20:39.805 --> 00:20:41.325
above water, how to build community.
515
00:20:41.405 --> 00:20:42.565
I mean, whatever feels meaningful.
516
00:20:42.565 --> 00:20:43.805
What are you advising the people
517
00:20:43.805 --> 00:20:45.725
around you come to you for counsel?
518
00:20:46.315 --> 00:20:48.485
Yeah, so I do not have all the answers,
519
00:20:48.705 --> 00:20:51.125
but these are the things that I'm personally trying
520
00:20:51.185 --> 00:20:53.045
and telling all of our clients to try.
521
00:20:53.185 --> 00:20:56.245
So I know this sounds crazy perhaps,
522
00:20:56.585 --> 00:21:00.125
but whatever you've done for self-care, double it.
523
00:21:00.505 --> 00:21:03.005
So I have one of these ridiculously large things.
524
00:21:03.085 --> 00:21:04.525
I try to drink two of these every day.
525
00:21:04.565 --> 00:21:07.205
I mean, isn't it funny, like remember when you would go
526
00:21:07.355 --> 00:21:08.845
camping for a whole day
527
00:21:08.945 --> 00:21:10.645
and like your parent would have a
528
00:21:10.715 --> 00:21:12.085
canteen for the whole family?
529
00:21:12.345 --> 00:21:13.725
It was like this big , right?
530
00:21:14.305 --> 00:21:18.045
So like, so if I know I'm gonna have an intense day, I try
531
00:21:18.045 --> 00:21:20.845
to drink three, I tend to walk a mile or so every day.
532
00:21:20.845 --> 00:21:23.405
If I know a crazy intense day of meetings,
533
00:21:23.435 --> 00:21:24.525
I'll throw an extra mile.
534
00:21:24.725 --> 00:21:27.085
I eat a lot of kale really like, I try
535
00:21:27.085 --> 00:21:28.205
to get eight hours of sleep.
536
00:21:28.305 --> 00:21:32.085
So kind of things that I've always thought were kind of nice
537
00:21:32.145 --> 00:21:34.405
to have, I always say or need to have
538
00:21:34.795 --> 00:21:37.885
because I think that our nervous system, as sophisticated
539
00:21:37.885 --> 00:21:40.085
as we are, we have these devices in our hand that we can,
540
00:21:40.085 --> 00:21:41.325
you know, do a thousand things
541
00:21:41.325 --> 00:21:45.205
with the human nervous system is built in a certain way
542
00:21:45.205 --> 00:21:47.765
where it's I think only capable of
543
00:21:48.575 --> 00:21:51.125
processing a certain amount of stress
544
00:21:51.305 --> 00:21:52.645
and change at a given time.
545
00:21:53.465 --> 00:21:56.245
And the more fuel we kind of put in the tank,
546
00:21:56.315 --> 00:21:58.165
good nutritious fuel,
547
00:21:58.965 --> 00:22:00.925
I think the more we can ask our nervous system
548
00:22:00.945 --> 00:22:02.005
to kind of do more.
549
00:22:02.465 --> 00:22:06.045
Um, and fuel could include things like taking a
550
00:22:06.045 --> 00:22:07.125
break from difficult news.
551
00:22:07.125 --> 00:22:08.805
There's this, um, a newsletter someone shared
552
00:22:08.805 --> 00:22:11.165
with me called Nice News where you can kind
553
00:22:11.165 --> 00:22:13.005
of have a quick update on what's going on in the world,
554
00:22:13.105 --> 00:22:16.085
but it is a little bit over indexing
555
00:22:16.085 --> 00:22:17.285
and on sharing good news
556
00:22:17.385 --> 00:22:20.365
or making sure that you take social media breaks
557
00:22:20.425 --> 00:22:22.885
or make sure that you surrender yourself with people
558
00:22:23.315 --> 00:22:27.645
that are optimistic, not unrealistic, but optimistic
559
00:22:27.985 --> 00:22:32.125
and find joy in small things like, I don't know, you
560
00:22:32.125 --> 00:22:34.565
and I both live in homes that have clean water.
561
00:22:34.955 --> 00:22:37.805
Yeah. When we open our tap, you know, I don't know, we have,
562
00:22:38.725 --> 00:22:41.045
I know there are occasional moments where there is
563
00:22:42.235 --> 00:22:43.325
intense pollution,
564
00:22:43.865 --> 00:22:47.165
but when we had, you know, various fire fires in Canada, you
565
00:22:47.165 --> 00:22:48.245
and I live in the New York area
566
00:22:48.305 --> 00:22:52.205
and we had those fires in Canada summer of 23.
567
00:22:52.225 --> 00:22:54.925
And if you remember the, the sky was just really dark
568
00:22:55.625 --> 00:22:57.765
and there was such toxic air.
569
00:22:57.765 --> 00:23:00.605
Do you remember that? I do. We'd been so busy, right?
570
00:23:01.025 --> 00:23:03.845
So I had, um, I had a call with an old friend
571
00:23:03.845 --> 00:23:06.525
and colleague that morning who, when that all was,
572
00:23:06.665 --> 00:23:08.885
was going down whose family's from India
573
00:23:09.385 --> 00:23:10.885
and we were talking, she said, you know what?
574
00:23:11.425 --> 00:23:13.365
She said, it smells like my grandmother's house.
575
00:23:13.365 --> 00:23:14.485
She, whenever I go back
576
00:23:14.485 --> 00:23:16.525
and I see our relatives in India, this is just kind
577
00:23:16.525 --> 00:23:17.565
of what the air smells like.
578
00:23:17.665 --> 00:23:19.445
And living in the New York area,
579
00:23:19.505 --> 00:23:21.005
we have not experienced that a lot.
580
00:23:21.185 --> 00:23:24.085
But on days when I'm overwhelmed, I think, you know what,
581
00:23:24.505 --> 00:23:27.125
at the moment, you know, I can fill up three of these.
582
00:23:27.245 --> 00:23:29.285
I got the tap water from the fridge that's kind of working.
583
00:23:29.355 --> 00:23:31.965
I've got the clear, like, it sounds so basic,
584
00:23:32.185 --> 00:23:35.645
but just trying to get back to kind of some
585
00:23:35.645 --> 00:23:37.605
of those fundamentals because there is a lot we don't have
586
00:23:37.605 --> 00:23:38.805
control over right now.
587
00:23:39.065 --> 00:23:41.005
So, um, and then I do a lot of reading
588
00:23:41.665 --> 00:23:42.885
and another thing, um,
589
00:23:43.065 --> 00:23:45.005
and I always say to our leaders, if you can take a,
590
00:23:45.060 --> 00:23:46.885
a break on the podcast all about leadership,
591
00:23:46.885 --> 00:23:48.045
just give your brain a break
592
00:23:48.185 --> 00:23:51.325
and just just read with, you know, fun for fun sake.
593
00:23:51.465 --> 00:23:53.485
So yeah, those are just some quick things.
594
00:23:53.605 --> 00:23:55.845
I mean it is nothing off the charts,
595
00:23:55.865 --> 00:23:58.365
but you know, things that we haven't all discussed
596
00:23:58.545 --> 00:24:01.005
or thought about, but I think it's about, um,
597
00:24:01.065 --> 00:24:02.205
oh and one quick thing.
598
00:24:02.485 --> 00:24:04.685
I do leadership team meetings every Monday with my team
599
00:24:04.685 --> 00:24:06.925
and we always start with the one minute mindful meditation
600
00:24:06.995 --> 00:24:08.525
because I know I'm guaranteed
601
00:24:08.585 --> 00:24:10.085
to meditate at least on Mondays,
602
00:24:10.305 --> 00:24:11.405
you know what I mean? Like, oh wonder.
603
00:24:11.875 --> 00:24:13.445
Yeah,
I think it's little,
604
00:24:13.515 --> 00:24:15.325
it's like literally a standing thing on the agenda.
605
00:24:15.625 --> 00:24:17.885
But these little things that just kind
606
00:24:17.885 --> 00:24:20.485
of help nourish our nervous system to do all the hard things
607
00:24:20.515 --> 00:24:23.605
that are in front of us with being, um, you know, citizens
608
00:24:23.605 --> 00:24:25.605
of the world and running companies. Yeah.
609
00:24:26.055 --> 00:24:28.405
Jamie, thank you. We covered a lot
610
00:24:28.405 --> 00:24:30.565
of ground in a pretty short amount of time,
611
00:24:30.705 --> 00:24:34.205
but I always appreciate your observations and your input
612
00:24:34.305 --> 00:24:35.565
and so thank you so much
613
00:24:35.705 --> 00:24:37.205
for sharing all of this with us today.
614
00:24:37.625 --> 00:24:38.805
Oh my gosh, thank you for having me.
615
00:24:38.845 --> 00:24:40.885
I could talk to you forever and I appreciate
616
00:24:40.885 --> 00:24:42.405
the chance to check in. Thank you.
617
00:24:42.785 --> 00:24:45.245
Thanks Jamie. Take care.
Bye.